How do you report someone who should not own a firearm?

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Originally Posted by Dandyone

I am NOT qualified to deny anyone of their rights. I feel obliged, however, to share potential intel with the authorities. All I was looking for was whether anyone on DC could help me figure out who I should talk to.

Rather than help, I feel like I've been painted as an invasive gun control advocate, which I am certainly not.

Changing subject, I'm very glad that you made it through the difficult times. Being cheated and abused by your most trusted confidant would send most people into an abyss. Luckily for you, you pulled out of it. And, like I said, if I were your friend at the time, I most certainly would have been there to help.

Apologies for misconstruing what you were saying. In my mind, I was thinking back to the parties that I engaged with my Navy buddies back in the days before family and responsibility.

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Discussions here routinely go a different direction than you (or I) was planning...don't feel attacked we on the otherside of the computer screen can only respond to the context that you type as we perceive it. From our point of view he got drunk once or twice and made some noise. You called the police and after much drama trying to reach him (nothing to do with him) he's found unconcious and has messed himself. From my pont of view that is embarrasing but not quite nanny disserving, is it something more than the way I've described it?

Be careful, you probably do not want a new best friend, even if your intentions are good. Here's hoping you get your own place soon.

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Originally Posted by Doodle

Discussions here routinely go a different direction than you (or I) was planning...don't feel attacked we on the otherside of the computer screen can only respond to the context that you type as we perceive it. From our point of view he got drunk once or twice and made some noise. You called the police and after much drama trying to reach him (nothing to do with him) he's found unconcious and has messed himself. From my pont of view that is embarrasing but not quite nanny disserving, is it something more than the way I've described it?

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It definitely feels like much more than what you've described. It is difficult and time consuming to articulate the pieces of the puzzle, and there are things that I've intentionally left out because I think they border on hearsay. To give you a taste, the police officers made statements that I have a difficult time figuring out how they could know what they stated as fact. For instance, they said that he had been holed up for four days, not eating, and binging on pills and booze. I certainly believe this could be the case, but I can't figure out how they would know this. The only thing I can imagine is that they were quoting what the guy said... but considering the shape he was in, that seems like a less than reliable source.

Then there are the text messages that have been swirling around... especially the strange rants from the drunk guy's ex-boyfriend (which were shared by the homeowner with me, when she was trying to contact the tenant). (Personally, I don't give a hoot what hole this guy plugs so long as I don't have to hear it or see it... that's totally his deal). I can't even begin to describe them because even with context they are difficult to decipher.

So, yeah, there is more to the story.

As I've mentioned already, I have been the disturbing drunk, and I have dealt with another neighbor who was a disturbing drunk. This guy, however, is different. Can't put it to words, but he's the kind of guy that raises your SA when you see him.

And, again, I'm not looking to take away his rights. I'm looking to make sure the intel gets into the proper hands, if for no other reason to begin to establish a paper trail so that if this guy disappears from my life but pops up somewhere else doing the same behaviors, or worse, there is something to establish a pattern. Patterns matter. Intel matters.

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Originally Posted by Dandyone

It definitely feels like much more than what you've described. It is difficult and time consuming to articulate the pieces of the puzzle, and there are things that I've intentionally left out because I think they border on hearsay. To give you a taste, the police officers made statements that I have a difficult time figuring out how they could know what they stated as fact. For instance, they said that he had been holed up for four days, not eating, and binging on pills and booze. I certainly believe this could be the case, but I can't figure out how they would know this. The only thing I can imagine is that they were quoting what the guy said... but considering the shape he was in, that seems like a less than reliable source.

Then there are the text messages that have been swirling around... especially the strange rants from the drunk guy's ex-boyfriend (which were shared by the homeowner with me, when she was trying to contact the tenant). (Personally, I don't give a hoot what hole this guy plugs so long as I don't have to hear it or see it... that's totally his deal). I can't even begin to describe them because even with context they are difficult to decipher.

So, yeah, there is more to the story.

As I've mentioned already, I have been the disturbing drunk, and I have dealt with another neighbor who was a disturbing drunk. This guy, however, is different. Can't put it to words, but he's the kind of guy that raises your SA when you see him.

And, again, I'm not looking to take away his rights. I'm looking to make sure the intel gets into the proper hands, if for no other reason to begin to establish a paper trail so that if this guy disappears from my life but pops up somewhere else doing the same behaviors, or worse, there is something to establish a pattern. Patterns matter. Intel matters.

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Well instincts are hard to convey with a keyboard but if your instincts put you into orange when you see the guy then I would trust them. I think as an average citizen there probably isn't much that you can report though so of course carry always and keep the SA up.

I know folks that have had bouts of depression, PTSD, alcholism. And ya know what...sometimes they work out for themselves. Like others have said:the authorities already know. Let them deal with it. SOme of the folks I know fixed the problem themselves. If it was reported they would:
a) Have en extremely hard time finding a job since almost everyone does background checks
b) will take forever to be able to purchase a firearm

Have you talked to this man?

UPDATE:

I just learned that the most un-neighborly neighbor has returned home and apparently picked up right where he left off. Another neighbor (and long-time friend) has called the police. We'll see where this goes now.

Lesson: Trust your instincts, and act on them.

I wish I could have put to words the myriad reasons why this guy brought me into orange. It could have saved a lot of frustrating back and forth. I'll update this thread when I learn more.

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Originally Posted by Dandyone

If it was illegal to purchase a car, as it is a firearm, if you have an addiction problem, then, sure, I would contact the DMV or whoever. If I saw him stumble out of a bar and get into a car, I'd call the police too.

I agree that it is the authorities who should handle this, but I don't think it is the sole job of police officers to report potentially dangerous behavior.

I understand what you are saying, and if the tables were turned, I very well might post a response similar to yours. But, I'm in my shoes, and I've seen and heard more than I can write. I'm concerned, and just like I don't want to see a BG get a weapon, I don't want to see this guy get a weapon. Hence I want to alert the appropriate authorities to my concern. They may not be able or willing to do anything, but if I learn that this guy ever does something violent with a gun (intentional or otherwise), it will be on my conscience if I don't pass on my concerns.

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Are you sure he's purchased a gun, are you sure he was addicted when he bought it? If he hasn't purchased a gun, or if he wasn't addicted to drugs when he did, he's broken no laws in regards to them. Maybe I've missed something, but all I've seen to this point is your concerned he MIGHT go off the deep end. Ask any anti and they will tell you, "Any gun owner is a mass murder, just waiting for something to set them off".

An alcoholic can by a car. It is only when his liscense is suspended or revoked by the state for DUI or other infractions that he can not legally drive. It still does not mean he can not own a car.

If a person is not arrested and convicted of a felony he can purchase firearms. In some places he might not get a CCP but he still has not lost his 2A rights.

The authorities know what is going on. All you should do is report any incidents that would warrant LEO response.

Archer51 and Suntzu,

"Section 922(g) of the Gun Control Act prohibits certain persons from shipping or transporting any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce, or receiving any firearm which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or possessing any firearm in or affecting commerce. These prohibitions apply to any person who:
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18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (3)
Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance
..."

Seems pretty clear to me. Maybe I'm missing something, but all that it looks like that needs to be established is that said neighbor is an unlawful user or addicted.

I don't know if he owns or wants to own a firearm. I do know that I would *definitely* not feel safe if he was anywhere near one, though. In such a case, all that might be between my kid's head and a bullet is a thin floor and a piece of wallboard.

Frankly, I think there are some folks here who are protecting the wrong guy. And I don't buy the whole slippery slope argument.

You're right. It does need to be established that he is addicted of a controlled substance. It is up to the COURT to decide whether or not he an addict of controled substance. If he has a prescription, then it is hard to prove that he is addicted. Some people have life long chronic pain so must take pain meds for the rest of their life. My wife has had her lower spine fused, and must take 6 vicodin a day to manage the pain, and will probably be taking them for the rest of her life. She daily carries a ruger P95DC. Is she addicted? Depends on your pov.

If he has some heavy meds that he should not have, the police can charge him of unlawful possesion of controlled substance.

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Originally Posted by Dandyone

Archer51 and Suntzu,

"Section 922(g) of the Gun Control Act prohibits certain persons from shipping or transporting any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce, or receiving any firearm which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or possessing any firearm in or affecting commerce. These prohibitions apply to any person who:
...
18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (3)
Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance
..."

Seems pretty clear to me. Maybe I'm missing something, but all that it looks like that needs to be established is that said neighbor is an unlawful user or addicted.

I don't know if he owns or wants to own a firearm. I do know that I would *definitely* not feel safe if he was anywhere near one, though. In such a case, all that might be between my kid's head and a bullet is a thin floor and a piece of wallboard.

Frankly, I think there are some folks here who are protecting the wrong guy. And I don't buy the whole slippery slope argument.

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You've already tried and convicted him in your mind, of doing something you have no idea if he has the capability of doing. Maybe his apartment should be gone through and all knives should be removed from it, because he MIGHT go off the deep end and stab someone.

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Originally Posted by archer51

You've already tried and convicted him in your mind, of doing something you have no idea if he has the capability of doing. Maybe his apartment should be gone through and all knives should be removed from it, because he MIGHT go off the deep end and stab someone.

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He may stab someone, but it won't be me or my family (at least if I'm around). He might also drop a knive on his foot or accidentally slit his wrist while wrestling the 'wax' seal from his bottle of Jack. But, what I can tell you is that if he accidentally drops a knife it won't magically find the force to fly through his floor, my ceiling, and into my wife's skull.

Whether or not I've tried and convicted him in my mind matters not. What matters is whether the appropriate authorities think that he should not be allowed to purchase or possess a firearm as a consequence of his addiction, etc.

I can't take any of his rights away. But it is my responsibility to alert the authorities to my concerns so that they can make this decision.

As for whether he has the 'capability' of doing something... I beg to differ. IF he handles a loaded firearm, he most definitely has the capability of making a mistake. Not every bullet that kills left the chamber as a result of malicious intent.

Accidents happen, and when you have a severe addiction, the probability of them happening increases exponentially.

Not every person that is not allowed to purchase/possess a firearm has had that right taken away for fear that they may maliciously deploy the weapon.

That said, I would not put this past the guy, even though he may be a fine upstanding man when sober. Drunks do stupid things like start fights and wave guns around. Or, as was the case in Texas, drunks can also attempt stupid things, like tackling an armed man.

I'm not going after the 2a. I'm justifiably concerned about safety. Anyone who can't see that must be blinded by something.

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Originally Posted by Dandyone

He may stab someone, but it won't be me or my family (at least if I'm around). He might also drop a knive on his foot or accidentally slit his wrist while wrestling the 'wax' seal from his bottle of Jack. But, what I can tell you is that if he accidentally drops a knife it won't magically find the force to fly through his floor, my ceiling, and into my wife's skull.

Whether or not I've tried and convicted him in my mind matters not. What matters is whether the appropriate authorities think that he should not be allowed to purchase or possess a firearm as a consequence of his addiction, etc.

I can't take any of his rights away. But it is my responsibility to alert the authorities to my concerns so that they can make this decision.

As for whether he has the 'capability' of doing something... I beg to differ. IF he handles a loaded firearm, he most definitely has the capability of making a mistake. Not every bullet that kills left the chamber as a result of malicious intent.Accidents happen, and when you have a severe addiction, the probability of them happening increases exponentially.

Not every person that is not allowed to purchase/possess a firearm has had that right taken away for fear that they may maliciously deploy the weapon.

That said, I would not put this past the guy, even though he may be a fine upstanding man when sober. Drunks do stupid things like start fights and wave guns around. Or, as was the case in Texas, drunks can also attempt stupid things, like tackling an armed man.

I'm not going after the 2a. I'm justifiably concerned about safety. Anyone who can't see that must be blinded by something.

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But if he doesn't own a gun, then he can not have the capability. You've already said you don't know if he does.

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Originally Posted by Dandyone

Temporary condition or not, this guy is dangerous. Anyone and everyone who routinely and severely compromises their cognitive capacity and physical being is a danger to themselves and others.

I don't know if he owns any firearms, is on the market for firearms, or will decide that he wants one or more in the future. BUT... I do know that he should not own them because he is a severe substance abuser.

So, I respectfully disagree with the assertion that there is no need to muddy around in his life. His life is bleeding over into mine.

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I don't mean to be a jerk, but in america we are still (mostly) innocent until proven guilty. He hasn't committed a crime (from what you have described). He is not a criminal. Drinking alcohol to the point of defecating on oneself, while sad, is still legal in your own home. What you "THINK" he "MIGHT" do "IF" he had a weapon is never, EVER justifiable cause for ruining someone's life by having them declared incompetent (having the committed), or for somehow trumping up some charges that he's abusing substances that he legally has the right to use. Whether or not he is using those drugs according to his prescription is an issue between him and his doctor.

Things like having someone committed can *ruin their lives*.

The matter would be entirely different if the guy got drunk and went around *threatening* to do harm to someone. That's a crime... and that's something you'd be justifiably concerned about. Then you could get a restraining order, or any number of other actions. IF a crime had been being committed that would prevent him from owning a weapon, the police would have dealt with it. That's their job.

If the system worked any other way, all anyone would have to do is report you or I as "going through a rough time right now" and boom, no more guns for you. Even if you're stone cold sober.

As for him bleeding into yours? Well, you did what you can do. You reported it, and you had the police come out, and they dealt with it, and now he's being evicted. Life is messy sometimes. Wait out your 90 days. Be vigilant of his behavior... as you should always be anyway.

If you actually want to help the situation, maybe the better question would have been:

"Are there any crisis counseling services that I can refer this guy to that can help him get through his issues without further injuring himself or others?"

It's funny, among all the chatter about the Aurora shooting... there's so much noise about our "gun problem" and so little noise about our "mental illness problem".

It's a tough spot. Sitting in one's home and drinking themself into oblivion is not illegal. The only crime he actually committed here is disturbing the peace due to the loudness in which he did his stuff. Unless he has been convicted of a felony (illegal to own guns as a felon), you're going to have a very difficult time getting him committed or determined to be mentally defective. While I understand your concern, and have been in similar situations in the past, your ability to have his rights curtailed is doubtful. The only control you really have is in where you choose to live.