Recoil Magazine - "This firearm shouldn't be available to the public" piece (MERGED)

This is a discussion on Recoil Magazine - "This firearm shouldn't be available to the public" piece (MERGED) within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by TX expat Unfortunately H&K has a sorry record when it comes to supporting 2A, so their claim of being an "ardent and ...

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Thread: Recoil Magazine - "This firearm shouldn't be available to the public" piece (MERGED)

  1. #61
    Member Array msc8127's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    Unfortunately H&K has a sorry record when it comes to supporting 2A, so their claim of being an "ardent and passionate supporter" is about as lame as JT's backtracks.
    I've heard reference to this from several people in the past. However, I admittedly know very little about HK, so I'd be curious to hear what the scoop is on this. I'm not saying you're incorrect, I'd just for my own knowledge like to know what these statements (from several different people are based on.

    I don't have a dog in this race, as I don't own anything from HK. However, whether or not I buy one at any point in the future would partially be based on the legitimacy of these claims that HK doesn't support 2A. There are several great guns available, so I don't mind avoiding HK if they have a hang-up with civilian gun owners' rights. But, if there's no substantiation of these statements, I'd hate to throw HK out on hearsay.

    Thanks

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  3. #62
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    Well, probably the best thing to do is just google it because that's what I would have to do to start citing examples. Or google their unofficial motto "Because you suck and we hate you" and you'll get an idea of why a lot of folks won't buy HK.

  4. #63
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    I just found this article. Apparently Mr. Galloway made his statement without the consent of Recoil management or Source Interlink Media, the mothership.

    http://kitup.military.com/2012/09/re...#ixzz26If0ZnAM

    The hits just keep on coming.

  5. #64
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    Well, probably the best thing to do is just google it because that's what I would have to do to start citing examples. Or google their unofficial motto "Because you suck and we hate you" and you'll get an idea of why a lot of folks won't buy HK.
    So in other words, you have no basis for the statement and are just repeating stuff from the internet?

    The whole "HK, because you suck and we hate you" is always good for a laugh, but really doesn't do anything to substantiate claims that they are anti 2nd amendment etc.

    As stated, the did what they had to do to get the MR556 and MR762 imported into the states for the US Customer base, HK has to go through a goofy process to get past the German export laws etc. for "Military grade hardware", they can't just throw a new sear into a gun and ship it to the US due to German laws and US laws. Some products get through the process some do not.

    G36 = SL8
    UMP = USC
    HK416 = MR556
    HK417 = MR762

    All those guns had to be modified to be sold in the US market from their military counterpart....

    But hey, we suck right?

    Like I said above, lets get rid of the NFA, GCA, and FOPA crap so we can make it possible for them to import the good stuff for civilian sale, until then we're griping at the wrong bunch of people.

  6. #65
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    As much as I disagree with the original comment made by the author, I really don't care as the MP7 really doesn't interest me. If I want something along those lines, I'd choose a P90, which again, I have no real interest in.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    Yeah, that's probably not a real smart mindset to take if you are a firearm publication. I think you could probably make that statement if it were a rocket launcher or something similar, but trying to make the statement that a firearm has to have "sporting applications" to be deemed acceptable for the general public is pretty darn stupid.
    Why would it be OK with a rocket launcher? The 2nd Amendment says "...Shall not be Infringed!" It says nothing of sporting purposes or anything being too dangerous. I would say that it just says arms which would include nuclear arms, biological arms, fighter jets, and other weapons of war. Many will disagree with me but it still is correct in my view.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    So in other words, you have no basis for the statement and are just repeating stuff from the internet?

    The whole "HK, because you suck and we hate you" is always good for a laugh, but really doesn't do anything to substantiate claims that they are anti 2nd amendment etc.

    As stated, the did what they had to do to get the MR556 and MR762 imported into the states for the US Customer base, HK has to go through a goofy process to get past the German export laws etc. for "Military grade hardware", they can't just throw a new sear into a gun and ship it to the US due to German laws and US laws. Some products get through the process some do not.

    G36 = SL8
    UMP = USC
    HK416 = MR556
    HK417 = MR762

    All those guns had to be modified to be sold in the US market from their military counterpart....

    But hey, we suck right?

    Like I said above, lets get rid of the NFA, GCA, and FOPA crap so we can make it possible for them to import the good stuff for civilian sale, until then we're griping at the wrong bunch of people.
    So in other words, you didn't do any research on how or why they have the reputation they do? I didn't give them that reputation, nor am I going to bother with "proof" you aren't interested in anyway. You can think HK is the greatest, most "ardent and passionate supporter" of 2A in the world if you like; it matters not to me. I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion; if it doesn't line up with mine, no problem. If you are truly interested in why so many people, including myself, feel that HK is a company with an elitest mentality and whose suport for our Second Amendment falls short of "ardent" or "passionate", then go figure it out for yourself, because either way it'll mean a lot more if you make up your own mind rather than having it handed to you. And just to clarify your insinuation; I have never stated or suggested that HK is "anti 2A"; I said they don't have a stellar record for being a strong supporter. There's a fairly big difference.

    As far as getting rid of all the alphabet soups that hinder import/sales, I'm with you; it'll never happen, but I'm with you on the idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    Why would it be OK with a rocket launcher? The 2nd Amendment says "...Shall not be Infringed!" It says nothing of sporting purposes or anything being too dangerous. I would say that it just says arms which would include nuclear arms, biological arms, fighter jets, and other weapons of war. Many will disagree with me but it still is correct in my view.
    It would be OK with a rocket launcher, for example, simply because we have federal laws (NFA) that prohibit the possession of devices such as that; therefore it would make sense to point out that the weapon being reviewed isn't something that an individual can possess. US citizens have a legal mechanism for owning suppressed, short barreled and automatic weapons under federal law. We do not (to the best of my knowledge) have the ability to apply for a tax stamp for a rocket launcher, which is why I gave that as an example. I'm not going to delve into what should or shouldn't be considered "arms" under 2A; feel free to debate that all you want, but that wasn't my purpose, nor is it on topic with this thread.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKM View Post
    As much as I disagree with the original comment made by the author, I really don't care as the MP7 really doesn't interest me.
    The uproar isn't about MP7's or anything like them.

    It's about an insider (the publication) showing anti-gunner, weak-need support for a "Swiss cheese" 2A and biting the hand that feeds them.

    It's also about also about attempting to stomp out one of the greater threats we have of a weakened 2A, that being (paraphrasing) "I don't care 'cause I have no interest in those sorts of guns." That sort of thinking is what allows the temporarily elected hirelings to chip away at the 2A from the edges, criminalizing some of the most-effective features and tools that have been made.

    And much of the vehemence of the response is to stomp on a waffling, shell-game approach to the publication accepting responsibility for its statements.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; September 13th, 2012 at 07:23 PM. Reason: spelling
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #69
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    From Recoil's website:

    STATEMENT FROM JERRY TSAI
    Article by Jerry Tsai
    It is with deep sorrow that I announce I am stepping down as editor of Recoil, effective immediately.

    It is very difficult for me to walk away from something I helped create, something that I loved doing, and something I firmly believed would appeal to a fresh new generation of gun enthusiasts, but I accept that the comments in my story in the current issue have made my position as editor of Recoil untenable.

    With that said, Recoil is bigger than any one person, and if my departure will allow Recoil to continue to grow and engage gun enthusiasts, then stepping down as editor is clearly the right thing for me to do.

    I accept I made mistakes, and I apologize unreservedly for calling Recoil’s support for Second Amendment rights into question.

    While I understand the passions aroused over this incident, the deeply hurtful words from some of my fellow gun enthusiasts have been painful to endure. I hope now we can all move on.

    Finally, I would like to thank all those who have supported me over the past few days. These are the people who know me to be at heart a passionate gun enthusiast whose dream was to make something bold and new in firearms media.

    Jerry Tsai



    Read more: STATEMENT FROM JERRY TSAI - RECOIL

  11. #70
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    That's unfortunate (for Recoil), but perhaps in their best interest. A hard lesson learned, hopefully by everyone involved.

    Instead of taking the non-civvie ball and running with it, perhaps he should've simply started with this ... (RawStory article):
    Quote Originally Posted by from an article at RawStory.com
    In a Facebook comment on Monday, Tsai attempted to defend his statement. “[The MP7A1] is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it,” he explained.
    ... and left it at that.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #71
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    Another release from Source Interlink Media, Mr. Galloway was suspended for his part in the fiasco.

    STATEMENT FROM SIM
    Article by Recoil Staff
    Source Interlink Media (SIM) today announced it had accepted the resignation of Recoil editor Jerry Tsai. Mr. Tsai will leave Recoil effective immediately.

    SIM, a leading men’s interest media company, will continue to publish Recoil, a gun lifestyle magazine that has to date proven to be a highly popular new title in the firearms sector.

    “SIM gives its editors a lot of freedom in terms of how they run their brands,” said Chris Argentieri, President of Source Interlink Media. “In this particular case, however, mistakes have been made, and Mr. Tsai is stepping down.

    “There should be absolutely no misunderstanding that Recoil is fully supportive of, and committed to, Second Amendment rights,” Mr. Argentieri added.

    Mr. Argentieri also announced Joe Galloway, Associate Publisher, 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords, Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords, has been suspended until further notice.

    SIM is actively seeking a new editor for Recoil, and looks forward to improving its approach to responsibly delivering engaging gun enthusiast content with the next issue and beyond.



    Read more: STATEMENT FROM SIM - RECOIL

  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKM View Post
    As much as I disagree with the original comment made by the author, I really don't care as the MP7 really doesn't interest me. If I want something along those lines, I'd choose a P90, which again, I have no real interest in.
    Those against private ownership or weapons know this and is the main reason that they do not attempt a total all at once weapons ban. Instead they go after small groups of firearms knowing that like you, most people will not care.
    They go after our rights the same way you would eat an elephant. Slowly, one bite at a time until there is nothing left.

    Michael

  14. #73
    Senior Member Array CIBMike's Avatar
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    In my military career i employed weapons that would destroy main battle tanks and a machinegun that could engage targets a mile away.I would never be so arrogant as to judge what firearms people need to protect themselves.A couple of issues of recoil have been passed around at work.It's a flashy "cool guy/ tacticool "rag and i won't miss it if it goes down.
    The easy way is always mined.

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