Why is everyone wanting suppressors these days?

This is a discussion on Why is everyone wanting suppressors these days? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Echo_Four I will preface this by saying cans are really cool items. I've often considered getting one, or 10, but just never ...

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Thread: Why is everyone wanting suppressors these days?

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    I will preface this by saying cans are really cool items. I've often considered getting one, or 10, but just never made the jump. I am sure at some point I'll feel like setting up the trust and getting it done.

    Anyway, on to my point. It seems as if recently I am seeing tons of posts from people saying the want to suppress a gun in order to save their hearing if they have to shoot a BG inside their home. And while a shot is loud enough to meet the criteria for hearing damage, I just don't see the evidence that it is all that big of a deal. I personally have shot inside structures without hearing protection and didn't suffer any damage... but I am never willing to base anything off one example, even if it is me. So, I have been looking at people with multiple combat deployments that spend at least some of the time in CQB situations inside. I'm not seeing a ton of these types of people with severe hearing damage after discharging 5.56 and 9mm inside while their friends did the same thing. It seems to me that if it was really that big of a threat we'd be seeing more of these guys with some real problems after 10 years of fighting terrorists.

    Now I am sure I'm missing something. Everybody didn't just decide to make a big deal out of this all of a sudden- something is causing it. So my question is what got all this started and what was the reasoning behind it? And thanks for any clues, because this one has had me scratching my head for a while.
    IMO it's just common courtesy to keep the noise down out of respect for one's neighbors.

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  3. #32
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    And while a shot is loud enough to meet the criteria for hearing damage, I just don't see the evidence that it is all that big of a deal.
    Probably because of what is known as "auditory exclusion", meaning that if one has a good adrenaline flow going, the shots don't seem to be that loud. Even cops that have to shoot report that the gun shots sound pretty weak. That's not to mean that they don't suffer hearing damage, its just that at that point it doesn't seem like an issue.

    Everybody didn't just decide to make a big deal out of this all of a sudden- something is causing it.
    I'm going to blame that one on the Internet and the information that is available. All of a sudden people are realizing that they aren't illegal, that in many states you can legally hunt with them and they are seeing and understanding that really the only downside to owning one is the wait to get your Form 4 approved from the ATF. I've had arguments from people that lived in other states that couldn't own one, and they were convinced that no one else could ethier..until an Internet search proved to them otherwise.

    I've heard every excuse know to man to NOT own one, and ended up selling them to those people that didn't think they needed one....until they shot one. When they realize that its not much more money than buying a rifle with a good scope they usually go ahead and get one, and once they do, no one stops at just one.

    I sold one to a friend of mine yesterday...who was convinced that he could live without one. I let him shoot a couple of my demo models and that was the end of that. He ended up buying one. Thats pretty typical really.
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  4. #33
    Member Array McDonaldUSMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    What is your definition of "severe". I know plenty of folks that have hearing loss directly related to military service and firing of weapons (including myself)
    What??? (Leaning over with my hand against my ear)
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  5. #34
    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    GlassWolf, what you said is the exact situation I am trying to address. I don't know if you've ever been in a situation where you had to shoot while in a building, but I have done it a handful of times. This ringing in the ears is something I only experienced after a flashbang, not after shooting or having others shoot. I am trying to track down where this line of thinking is coming from, because I am clearly missing something. As far as recoil is concerned, that's a matter or learning to shoot. By that logic I should put a 10 pound weight on the end of my pistol because that too would reduce felt recoil.

    I am not discounting that there could be a cumulative loss of hearing due to shooting indoors. When I left the Marine Corps my hearing was slightly worse than when I entered but was only noticeable in a hearing test. But that was after going through several situations where hearing suffers. Maybe I was just lucky, but I can't believe I was so lucky that I managed to avoid a major problem that the vast majority of people would have after shooting indoors in the unlikely home invasion scenario.

    I am not at all discounting the cool factor. Heck, I'm not saying they aren't great safety devices. In my mind they should be considered something that makes guns safer, not more dangerous. If everyone had suppressors and used them at the range we'd all be safer since hearing protection isn't perfect. But that doesn't address my specific question right now, and that's where the fascination with a can for the home invasion scenario started and why.
    I have shot indoors. I will admit however, that I have very good hearing. I'm not an audiologist, but I have spent about two decades working in the audio field professionally, and I understand a good deal about how the ear works. To put this as simply as possible, and this is more so the younger you are, when the ear is subjected to a sudden, loud noise, there is a passage in the ear that closes or reduces in size to reduce the sound pressure that reaches the inner ear and ear drum. This will gradually re-expand, but it's a protection function in the human ear. When you fire an unsuppressed gun indoors, that function kicks in and you lose the ability to hear details you'd otherwise hear. If someone is coming down, or up a flight of stairs, or coming around a corner in your home, you have a much better chance of hearing them if you'd used a supressor for the first shots, and your ears haven't closed off to the extent they would with an unsuppressed weapon, be it a 9mm or a .223
    This is just anatomy. It's how the human ear functions.

    As for the added weight at the end of the gun, now you're just being silly with the rock reference. I'm not saying the suppressor is used TO weight the barrel down. I'm saying using the suppressor has the added benefit of weighting the end of the barrel down, which in turn reduces recoil effect. It's simply an effect of using a suppressor, that may be of benefit, especially with things like SBRs and fully automatic weapons.

    If you want an example of the auditory function I mentioned, get in a car and turn the radio up really loud. It'll seem really really loud at first, then after a moment, it won't seem quite so loud anymore. You're not just "getting used to it." This is your ears trying to reduce the potential damage to them by the high SPL.

  6. #35
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    Now that's useful. I am aware of how the ear works and I understand how it reacts to loud noise. I'm sure I have experienced that in the past, I just wasn't focused on it so I don't remember going through it. The notion that you may not hear someone moving around is a good idea about how this whole crazy could have got kicked into high gear. But it still doesn't tell me why everyone seems to think you'll have the ringing ears (and near blindness from flash if you read what some people write) from a shot or two inside. I know I haven't had that happen when I've been through it.

    While I'm on this train of thought, who is to say that the suppressor isn't going to cause you tactical harm? If a shot can cause you to not hear the BG moving in your home it would also mean the BG wouldn't be able to hear me as well. Thus the shot could work allow me to get to a superior position without the goblin knowing I was moving.

    And I may have been a little silly with weighting the barrel. But I'm looking for the cause of the belief that you have to have a can if you're shooting inside. If someone was looking for recoil help and they picked a can to get it they made an error. There are far more effective ways to deal with recoil. That was my point, even if I failed to make it.
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  7. #36
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    The internet is likely to blame.

    Not only are people finding out that they are legal, but they are also learning about "Trust Options" to make acquiring them easier.

    People buy guns for a variety of reasons. Some for just a tool, for weekend entertainment, some for power, but most of us would probably add that they are also "just cool" and admire the brilliant human engineering factor they have. A "can" definitely has purpose, but it's also "just cool".
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    Now that's useful. I am aware of how the ear works and I understand how it reacts to loud noise. I'm sure I have experienced that in the past, I just wasn't focused on it so I don't remember going through it. The notion that you may not hear someone moving around is a good idea about how this whole crazy could have got kicked into high gear. But it still doesn't tell me why everyone seems to think you'll have the ringing ears (and near blindness from flash if you read what some people write) from a shot or two inside. I know I haven't had that happen when I've been through it.

    While I'm on this train of thought, who is to say that the suppressor isn't going to cause you tactical harm? If a shot can cause you to not hear the BG moving in your home it would also mean the BG wouldn't be able to hear me as well. Thus the shot could work allow me to get to a superior position without the goblin knowing I was moving.

    And I may have been a little silly with weighting the barrel. But I'm looking for the cause of the belief that you have to have a can if you're shooting inside. If someone was looking for recoil help and they picked a can to get it they made an error. There are far more effective ways to deal with recoil. That was my point, even if I failed to make it.

    OK, let's see if I can address any of this. I hve a visual impairment that's damaged rods and cones in my eyes, so my own eyes, just speaking personally, don't react to changes in light and dark as quickly anymore. That said, muzzle flash is mroe of an issue with some guns than others, depending on design, barrel length, ammo used, etc.. For example a longgun won't show flash much usually, and ammo like Cor-Bon 9mm HP uses a low-flash powder to reduce the effect. With that out of the way, in low light, with a smaller gun, it may or may not affect you. The muzzle flash from a .50AE Deasert Eagle is huge. From a .380? Not so much.
    Now, about the two edged sword with the suppressor and noise. Sure, IF the other BGs are close by they may also be deafened by the blast. Now, would you prefer that, or would you prefer to quietly drop the BG in front of you without, possibly, alerting his buddies who are upstairs, or in the garage ransacking your shiny stuff, or looking for your kids?
    The sound of a body dropping is a lot quieter than a .45ACP firing in an enclosed space. It's still noisy, but not nearly to the extent of the unsuppressed weapon.

    Back to the topic of audiology for just a moment for those unaware of the reality of the "decibel." When you look at specs for a suppressor, and see the volume of the shots with and without the suppressor, please keep this in mind: The decibel is not a linear scale. It is, in fact, a log scale, and as such, 1dB is denoted as the smallest difference or change in volume perceptible to the human ear. +3dB is an audible increase, in the speaker world, requiring twice the amount of power as the prior 0dB sound, to produce. To double the volume of a noise, yoou need to increase output by +6 to +10dB, which requires (for speakers now) an increase in power of ten times. As an example, to double the audible volume of a stereo system from an output of 10 watts, you'd need to go to 100 watts RMS.
    This is relative, as you may be wondering, in that a suppressor may take a gun from 140dB to 120dB. This 20dB difference may not sound like much, but in effect, you're actually reducing the volume of the blast by as much as 4 times.

    OK, now that's out of the way, I'll add one little anecdote, and take this as you will, for whatever value you like. I'm not telling you this to sway you, but simply to show the psycho-acoustic effect of adrenaline and "the heat of the moment."

    My friend was, about two months ago, involved in a shooting. He works armed security at a club, and had a banger show up, shoot and kill one of the club's bouncers, then attempt to flee. My friend pursued the assailant. The BG fired at my friend with his remaining rounds in his .32 handgun, and my buddy returned fire by emptying two full magazines from his .40S&W Glock. When the BG initially shot the bouncer, not 15 feet from my friend, my friend dropped the can of OC he was holding, and drew to shoot back, in a matter of seconds.
    Now, here's the kicker: After all of this happened, and to this day, my friend claims he doesn't remember dropping that can of OC, and doewsn't remember hearing a single shot fired after the BG broke and ran, and he started to return fire. All he remembered doign was calling 911, having them on the phone as he chased, fired back, and so forth.. but the actual gunshots from both the .32, and the .40? not any of the noise. This was in an ally and a parking lot, at night. Just an interesting tidbit to ponder. :)

  9. #38
    Ex Member Array pscipio03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    Less noise for the neighbor and finally legal in my state. I might own a SBR or similar item if legal in my state as well.
    Yeah, Rocky, but we still can't buy suppressed pellet guns here in MI. Makes complete sense to me. Especially when I want to cut down on my chipmunk population.

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    If you've ever shot with a suppressor inside of a closed confined space you'll still recieve a signature that is fairly loud. It won't bust your eardrums though.
    Perhaps your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    If you live out in the country a can will allow you to shoot on your own property and not have to put up with the crying, sniveling and wailing of the city folks that have moved out in the country.
    This one x10 for me. A few years ago we had some dingbat move out here and would call the county sheriff office every time someone popped off a few rounds out back. The deputies got tired of responding and I got tired of them responding... So a can solves the problems since I cant get rid of the dingbat down the road legally speaking...
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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  12. #41
    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post
    OK, now that's out of the way, I'll add one little anecdote, and take this as you will, for whatever value you like. I'm not telling you this to sway you, but simply to show the psycho-acoustic effect of adrenaline and "the heat of the moment."

    My friend was, about two months ago, involved in a shooting. He works armed security at a club, and had a banger show up, shoot and kill one of the club's bouncers, then attempt to flee. My friend pursued the assailant. The BG fired at my friend with his remaining rounds in his .32 handgun, and my buddy returned fire by emptying two full magazines from his .40S&W Glock. When the BG initially shot the bouncer, not 15 feet from my friend, my friend dropped the can of OC he was holding, and drew to shoot back, in a matter of seconds.
    Now, here's the kicker: After all of this happened, and to this day, my friend claims he doesn't remember dropping that can of OC, and doewsn't remember hearing a single shot fired after the BG broke and ran, and he started to return fire. All he remembered doign was calling 911, having them on the phone as he chased, fired back, and so forth.. but the actual gunshots from both the .32, and the .40? not any of the noise. This was in an ally and a parking lot, at night. Just an interesting tidbit to ponder. :)

    And that my friends is called " Adrenaline dump"
    Perhaps your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    What is your definition of "severe". I know plenty of folks that have hearing loss directly related to military service and firing of weapons (including myself)
    I have hearing loss from military service too.
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  14. #43
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    pretty simple.....more threaded barrels than ever before. All those threads want something to screw them.

  15. #44
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    Sure Kshoulder, YHM has a flash supressor for a 5.56 that has the threading to attach their 30 caliber can. That way you can use it on your 5.53 (223) and on your flavor of 308. The cans are covered under the National Firearms Act of 1968 hence a From 4 item.
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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    WHAT??? JK - could not resist.
    Sure Kshoulder, YHM has a flash supressor for a 5.56 that has the threading to attach their 30 caliber can. That way you can use it on your 5.56 (223) and on your flavor of 308. The cans are covered under the National Firearms Act of 1968 hence a From 4 item.
    Last edited by donp326; October 30th, 2012 at 09:45 AM.
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