Gun safe a bad idea?
This is a discussion on Gun safe a bad idea? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Our insurance gives us a discount for having a rated safe. I actually have several. one in the house and several in the garage. A ...
November 11th, 2012 04:02 PM
Our insurance gives us a discount for having a rated safe. I actually have several. one in the house and several in the garage. A safe wont stop a determined burglar, it just slows them down to a point that they find it easier to move on to the next house without one. My question to the Insurance agent would be How common are home invasions where you live, and how much of a discount will I get for buying a rated safe? If home invasions are common its time to move! they are extremely hard to defend against. DR
November 11th, 2012 04:35 PM
First--I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I've experienced stolen guns before--and it sucks to not know if your gun has been used by a criminal to hurt someone. Lesson one for me (at the time)--buy a safe.
Second, as others have noted...your insurance agent lacks critical thinking skills.
Third, I highly recommend a safe. If you go whole hog on getting a large safe there are several reputable companies out there (check out the function here). Because I move around every couple of years, I bought a Zanotti safe (Gun Safes for your home or business | Zanotti Armor®), ZA-II (6 ft model). It is modular, easy to move with a hand truck (the door is the heaviest part)--but does not provide any fire protection. If fire protection is important to you, go with a large (non-modular) safe.
Oh...and after two of my guns were stolen, I went out and purchased a new P226...and a new safe. As I accumulated more guns, I added an insurance rider to my policy.
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November 11th, 2012 04:46 PM
Do you have door locks? Alarm? Dogs? If yes to ANY then you will be ready when the fun begins.
November 11th, 2012 05:09 PM
Having been the victim of a home burglary, I am a BIG believer in safes. The burglar who stole jewelry, watches, and a little cash from our home did not get a single gun... probably because he lacked the time, equipment, and work ethic required to breach a 1,000 lb safe that's bolted to the house foundation. He never came back, either. I suspect our home was targeted simply due to being secluded and not having an alarm (which was quickly rectified).
I know quite a few 'gun nuts' and frequent a lot of gun boards and I can't recall hearing about anyone ever being targeted for a home invasion because they had a gun safe. If that's a legitimate danger, we'd be hearing about it regularly on the news and on the internet -- but it's just not so.
I have heard of burglars targeting people known to keep a lot of cash, or known to have lots of prescription drugs, but targeting someone who has guns poses a much bigger risk to the home invader, simply because people who have lots of guns tend to believe in using them. As the saying goes - "Nothing Here Worth Dying For".
A criminal who's willing to take on that level of risk is more likely to pursue very rich targets like businesses, where there is a lower risk of meeting armed resistance.
"...people who carry a gun understand that they are arming themselves against a very unlikely event... People who arm themselves are not confused about the odds. They are concerned about the stakes. -Kathy Jackson
NRA Life Member
November 11th, 2012 05:09 PM
The only real "down side" I can even consider about having a large safe is that crooks will automatically know where your valuables are.
And big whoop. That'll hopefully stop them from ripping the rest of your house apart. I have a feeling the average nasty person isn't going to (A) have the tools or (B) have the time necessary to try a potentially noisy and sloppy safe-cracking...
Hey, if nothing else, get the big safe and get one of those crappy $99 microwave-sized safes and put it right on top of the big safe. You can put stuff like old socks and underwear in it. Easy pickins' for the bad guy who'll think he's getting away with something special and you still get the last laugh when you imagine him finally getting it opened.
NRA Life / Endowment UT, FL, IL
November 11th, 2012 06:04 PM
I took an NRA training class and the instructor, who has hundreds of guns in his home, has had three break ins to his home. He said in each case no one was home except for his trained attack dog. The dog persuaded the intruders they would be better off leaving than remaining in his home.
I don't know what the agent's angle is but I disagree. I agree with the other posters - add an alarm and/or get a dog if practicable, home carry.
Sorry for your loss.
November 11th, 2012 06:55 PM
Hard to imagine how a gun safe could be a bad idea. Though, it's understood that not all safes are suitable for all environments.
Originally Posted by proliance
Not every burglar can enter a safe. Not every relatively-skilled burglar can enter a safe quickly enough to matter. And NO SAFE is safe from predation if it's the only measure a person has taken for security.
But if they know you have a safe they will break into your home while you are there and do what it takes to force you to open the safe. So if you have a gun safe (or safe of any sort) you have to keep it hidden.
Layered security is very important. A safe, as heavy and tough to break open as you can afford; an alarmed space surrounding the safe; ability to have the cavalry come to protect the alarmed/secure area as quickly as possible, if the alarm goes off; etc. Fail to have such layers? Then you'll get exactly what your insurance person is warning you against: burglars/robbers who won't mind taking the time to access your valuables and do whatever they need to get them.
Sure, you can get a safe upstairs. But the limiting factors will include the space of the stairwell for access, the strength of the flooring to support it, and the strength of the crew to deliver and position it.
In my 2 story condo I can't get a safe upstairs and keeping it hidden will prove very difficult. Any suggestions?
Downstairs might be the option, then, assuming you own both up/down. If your condo is a 2nd floor only type, then you're limited to whatever will fit upstairs. Probably a 5000 pound monster won't be in your stars, then. But there are a number of safes that are sufficiently well-made, heavy enough and with features sufficient for withstanding attack in a layered approach to your security.
I'd recommend something with at minimum a 1/4in integral steel body, 1000 lbs, anchored to the foundation, relocking capability, two 1in bolts (min) on each side of the door. Compare features of AMSEC, Graffunder, Fort Knox, Meilink to the specs you'll find on the sort of safes you see in hardware/department stores. Consider TL-15 and TL-30 features and what they mean for increased difficulty to break the safe.
Of course, the value of what you're protecting and your degree of layering and insurance coverage will greatly impact the utility to you of safe toughness.
And don't discount the value of used safes. Occasionally, you can find extremely good bargains on high-quality safes that'll meet your needs as fully as any full-priced new model in the showroom.
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November 11th, 2012 06:57 PM
Your agent doesn't know what she's talking about. Anyone breaking into my home while I'm here won't make it to the safe.
Want some safe info? Here's all you need...http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html
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Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
November 11th, 2012 07:35 PM
I agree. Going by the adjuster's rational,don't wear jewelry,wear rags,drive an old car,people will think you are poor. What kind of mindset have people developed in our country? Let us hide so the bad guy will leave us alone.Perhaps the bad guys should fear us? No,that would never fly with the Dr.Phil generation.
Originally Posted by GetSmith
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November 11th, 2012 07:38 PM
You can get a full sized safe upstairs. I put my 1100'lber in my apartment which was on the second level. Getting it down was probably more fun than putting it up there. Also, don't take the attitude they are hard to move. When I moved it thru the house into the garage last summer myself and my wife moved it using 6 pieces of 1 1/4 inch PVC pipe and really didn't break that much of a sweat doing it.
November 11th, 2012 07:39 PM
I've been an insurance agent for 23 years, own an insurance agency and been around guns my entire 45 years on this planet. The best advice I can offer is find a new agent.
November 11th, 2012 10:58 PM
I just bought my first gun safe about 2 weeks ago through the Costco website, it is a Big Horn classic model 19ECB not the best you can buy but not the worst it falls somewhere in the middle.
November 11th, 2012 11:03 PM
Sounds like someone has either been watching too many movies or is FOS....or both.
November 11th, 2012 11:28 PM
Slip a refrigerator box over the safe box when you unload it and bring it where others can see.
North Carolina Concealed Handgun Permit Instructor
NRA Personal Protection and Basic Pistol Instructor
November 11th, 2012 11:43 PM
We have had several break-ins in our neighborhood with similar MO's. The bad guy or guys know which people leave for work and when. Almost immediately after the last person leaves the house, the crooks back a van into the driveway, kick in the front door, take what ever they can find quickly and are gone in a matter of minutes. This has been going on for several years and no one has yet been caught. I have a gun safe but we are getting ready to move.
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