What are your 2A beliefs (150 words or less)

This is a discussion on What are your 2A beliefs (150 words or less) within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by nwbackpacker My beliefs: I have the right, as a law abiding citizen with no criminal record, to defend myself and my family. ...

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  1. #31
    Ex Member Array Edward7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwbackpacker View Post
    My beliefs:

    I have the right, as a law abiding citizen with no criminal record, to defend myself and my family. A firearm is simply the best method of achieving this goal. If there existing a stun gun that had a reliable method of disabling an attacker without death I would gladly utilize that tool.

    I find that that the second amendment (note *amendment*) seems to fit with my personal beliefs and I'm glad for that.

    Where I find myself conflicted is the particular weapon that should be legal for me to fulfill this goal. Some say "no limits!" but what about a bazooka? What about a fully automatic 50 caliber gun as found on a tank? What about a tank itself? The 2nd amendment says the right "shall not be infringed", but are there reasonable limits to that?

    Overall, I find that the debate is generally not so much about the right itself, but the particular weapon that is reasonable within that right. Sure, there are some that want to get rid of guns entirely, but most citizens are more concerned about the type of weapon itself. I myself find that this is a big grey area. The assault weapons ban is as example of this debate.
    No grey area at all, all GUNS should be ok. Maybe not explosives (bazookas) or vehicles (tanks.) but definitely guns (.50 cal machine guns.) should be free to all citizen. And not just citizens without criminal records, what other basic freedoms should we lose after serving our dept to society? No more first amendment? No more 5th?
    If they did their time and paid their dept to society then they should have all the rights any citizen should have.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution: A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    IMO ...

    A capable and effective citizenry is required in order to remain free, and the hallmark need of the people is the ability to effectively defend themselves in the face of threats to their lives and property. As such, the right of all citizens to remain armed is absolute and shall not be infringed, impeded or disallowed for any reason or by any means, ever, by anyone at any time.

    No permits, minimum training, limits on manufacturing, purchasing, transportation, carrying, storage or any other aspect of the ownership or bearing of weapons shall exist, upon pain of criminal, treasonous crimes against the Constitution and the People if attempted.

    Anyone who endeavors to harm another with the credible threat of death or serious injury shall, if found guilty of such harms, be put to death. Anyone who commits any crime of any sort in which the credible threat of death or serious injury of another occurs shall, if found guilty of such harms, be put to death. Anyone who commits any crime of any sort while employing a deadly weapon shall, if found guilty of the crime, be put to death.

    The right to be armed is coequal with property rights of owners/residents. Requesting a person leave the premises if determined to be armed is the sole means available to a person in assuring both the other retains the right to remain armed and the property rights of the owner/resident are upheld.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; December 5th, 2012 at 02:54 AM.
    Edward7 likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  4. #33
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    Well I agree and support the basic premise of the 2A and I am glad it is there.

    Do I think machine guns, explosives and other regulated items should be available to anyone? Lord no. I have said this a hundred times on here "Some people should not be allowed to carry a spork, much less a firearm". There are to many people who if given the chance would take advantage of the situation so to speak and go overboard.

    We all as gun owners are no different from any other citizen. They to have rights, they have the right to carry a firearm or not. We are not a protected class nor should our right to keep and bear arms violate someone else's choice not to have a gun or carry one.

    If you want to buy a machine gun go for it. Yep they are expensive but you can still own one. Want an SBR not a problem. Personally I feel there has to be some supervision/regulation somewhere. If it could be assured everyone was a responsible adult with common sense and a moral and ethical code then great get rid of all the regulations but that will never happen. I do not have a problem with permits and training to show competence in some cases I feel more could be done. I don't care if they have to call in a NICS check on me when I buy. I have a CCW so they don't have to but when they did it was merely 5 minutes out of my day.

    Before anyone jumps up and claims that I am anti anything, support more government control, have no backbone, are rights are eroding or that my opinion is wrong, first I do not really care what anyone thinks of my opinion. It is mine and I can think anything I want. I am typing this response after watching a video that was linked from site. In the video a man who is apparently arguing with or trying to prove his point about 9mm's and how bad he is makes the statement that "He will shoot himself in "scrotum" not what he called it but anyway, with a 9mm.

    Lo and behold on cam he withdraws his scrotum from his pants and with a .380 auto places said scrotum on a desk, chambers a round and pulls the trigger. The damage both to his scrotum and desk are obvious but this is how we are all judged by the liberals, anti's and non gun folks and people think he should be able to own a machine gun and explosives with no restrictions? Not hardly. I cannot link the video here as it goes to a site that has several adult only things plus adult language on it and would not be appropriate at all.

    Mods if I can post the link only with a warning about content and language please let me know.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array Jemsaal's Avatar
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    My thoughts:

    If you've committed a felony, you have willingly given up your Second Amendment rights.
    If you've committed no felony, you have the right and responsibility to bear arms.
    If you're trying to commit a felony against me, you have just lost your right to life.

    Outside of that: I have no problem with instant background checks for criminal records. I have a problem with instant background checks that require a list to be kept, even by the seller (though I understand it's more for their ability to prove they did their job). If however it comes back clean, anything short of a flame-thrower should be available.

    IMO, the largest problem today is that most people fail to realize that "right" equals "responsibility." If I have the right to bear arms, then I also have the responsibility to both do it, and learn how to do it in a manner that best defends both my rights, and the "rights given by our creator" to those around me.
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  6. #35
    Ex Member Array Edward7's Avatar
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    What is the incentive for a felon who served their sentence (felony.) to get a job and clean up his life? We wont ever treat him like a citizen will we? Would you give him a job? Give him that 2nd chance? Maybe you would, but your the minority. He cant vote, cant influence the country he calls home....cant protect himself from people making the same stupid mistakes he did....So he thinks hes still like them, he gives up. Perseverance and hard work is great and all but its hard to try when you know you cant win. If we cant ever let them be treated like american citizens with god given rights, then it would be kinder to put him out of his misery.
    No one should lose their 2nd amendment rights or any right, better to let them just lose their lives.

  7. #36
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    If they did their time and paid their dept to society then they should have all the rights any citizen should have.
    So you are saying let's say a man who committed rape of a 15 year old, shot the victim, spent 20 years in prison and does his time because his original charge was plea bargained down and is now on the street should be able to buy and own a firearm?

    I will tell you what, you hire him as a nanny, lawn guy, pool guy or babysitter and sign a contract that if he commits a crime you will serve the time for him or if he commits no crimes in let's say 3 years he will be considered to have a hearing to get his rights restored. Are you willing to put you life and family on the line for him?

    Yes there is a small minority of prisoners that come out "better" than they went in. Many have graduated and been rehabilitated then turn right around and commit another felony and end up right back in. I prefer to leave things as they are and simply deny them the right to own a firearm legally. If he wants one he will get it anyway legal or not.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  8. #37
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    I spent 26 years on the rolls of the USMC to fight for all the Progressive Left's rights. Now that I am, by choice, to remain CONUS/'home based', I'm preserving my personal 2A rights! I think I earned that. Any questions?

    If I need to further express my opinion, I'm sure I would be way to beligerent of the Progressive Left to be allowed on this Forum again.

    Note: I respect that there are many of you on this Forum that have never served, vote left and carry. I respect you. You have that right to be the way you feel and are because of others who have died for it!
    Socialism Kills! Time proven, with a very large body count! We are a Constitutional Republic....... not a Democracy, get it correct!

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  9. #38
    Ex Member Array Edward7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    So you are saying let's say a man who committed rape of a 15 year old, shot the victim, spent 20 years in prison and does his time because his original charge was plea bargained down and is now on the street should be able to buy and own a firearm?

    I will tell you what, you hire him as a nanny, lawn guy, pool guy or babysitter and sign a contract that if he commits a crime you will serve the time for him or if he commits no crimes in let's say 3 years he will be considered to have a hearing to get his rights restored. Are you willing to put you life and family on the line for him?

    Yes there is a small minority of prisoners that come out "better" than they went in. Many have graduated and been rehabilitated then turn right around and commit another felony and end up right back in. I prefer to leave things as they are and simply deny them the right to own a firearm legally. If he wants one he will get it anyway legal or not.
    Im a firm supporter of the death penalty, does that answer your question?

  10. #39
    Ex Member Array Edward7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANGLICO View Post
    I spent 26 years on the rolls of the USMC to fight for all the Progressive Left's rights. Now that I am, by choice, to remain CONUS/'home based', I'm preserving my personal 2A rights! I think I earned that. Any questions?

    If I need to further express my opinion, I'm sure I would be way to beligerent of the Progressive Left to be allowed on this Forum again.

    Note: I respect that there are many of you on this Forum that have never served, vote left and carry. I respect you. You have that right to be the way you feel and are because of others who have died for it!

    First let me thank you for your service. Second, I come from a military family (A couple marines in there.) and would have proudly served had I medically qualified. Lastly im sure you could share your valued opinion without reverting to language that would get you banned.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    So you are saying let's say a man who committed rape of a 15 year old, shot the victim, spent 20 years in prison and does his time because his original charge was plea bargained down and is now on the street should be able to buy and own a firearm?
    Absolutely, once a person has paid the "debt" in recompense, he/she should absolutely not be denied the right of citizenship.

    Though, IMO, for those crimes heinous enough to damage lives forever, such people shouldn't be denied their full responsibility and the full (and, to my way of thinking, appropriate) penalty for such crimes: death, in partial recompense for having dared to commit them and harm others so heinously.
    phreddy likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    The felony thng I re think all the time. Legally a man can be an alchoholic and buy a firearm. A person with multiple DUI misdeamenaors can own a firearm. A person with a felony charge of tax evasion is banned from owning firearms....hmmm Just don't make sense.

    Our laws and judicial system are the ones that determine what are felonies and what are misdememanors and the type (A,B,C). There is nothing in the Constitution that I am aware of that says a felon cannot own a firearm. So that infringement was done by law.

    Any historians out there? How many folks in the 1800's committed what are now considered felonies, did their time, and were allowed to have weapons? I beleive many. So this is another way that laws hav infringed the rights of people.

    Quite frankly the arguement about repeat offenders, murders's, pedophiles is getting quite old. The issue with that class of crimminal is that they should never be released from prison. The point really is moot with them.
    phreddy and peckman28 like this.
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  13. #42
    Senior Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    The right to lick a stamp, enclose a check to those with enough clout to make a difference in fighting for our 2A rights.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

  14. #43
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    Yes guys the penalty for many offenses should be death or they should never again be released upon society but whether it is getting old saying it or not they do not die, sentences are commuted, plea bargains are made, parole is granted and they are released so we now have to deal with them so the point is far from moot. What we want or think should happen is a far cry from what is happening.

    I don't think they should be able to get their right to own a firearm back again but let's say they have been clean for 3 years, 5 years whatever great review their behavior and if they meet certain criteria give it back to them on a limited basis if that makes everyone feel good but it will only take one incident and we would be right back to where the whole thing started.

    We see news stories all the time where someone paroled early or released on time served commits some horrible crime and goes back. The public has a field day blaming everyone but the Pope so now when a felon is released we restore their rights because the 2A says nothing about felons and let them have firearms. How long would it take for this to bleed over onto us as legal non felon gun owners? No thanks but I will pass on this one.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Someone tried a poll a few weeks ago sort of like this. But this more of a question and asking for an essay answer LOL..j/k bullet statements are great also.
    Seriously. What are your 2A views. Permits, training, no gun signs force of law, employer/employee rights, limits on purchaes/types of firearms one might own...etc

    I have always said I am a very simple person. Here is my answer short and sweet:

    I do not think there should be any permits, CCP's etc. If you can legally buy a wepeaon you should be able to carry it in the manner you choose.

    I do not beleive in mandatory training. I HIGHLY encourage training of all kinds.

    I do beleive that property owners have the right to ban employee's and patrons of their establishments. I do not care for any arguements that it takes away their right to self defense. That is not a 2A issue and only the government can take away a right. Go find another job.
    The government can not take away that or any other right, they do not grant them to have that ability. That said, I do agree with much of what you have stated.
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  16. #45
    Senior Member Array Jemsaal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward7 View Post
    What is the incentive for a felon who served their sentence (felony.) to get a job and clean up his life? We wont ever treat him like a citizen will we? Would you give him a job? Give him that 2nd chance? Maybe you would, but your the minority. He cant vote, cant influence the country he calls home....cant protect himself from people making the same stupid mistakes he did....So he thinks hes still like them, he gives up. Perseverance and hard work is great and all but its hard to try when you know you cant win. If we cant ever let them be treated like american citizens with god given rights, then it would be kinder to put him out of his misery.
    No one should lose their 2nd amendment rights or any right, better to let them just lose their lives.
    IMO, they haven't "lost" their rights. They willingly gave them up by choosing to commit a felony, in the same way they willingly give up rights specific to American citizens when choosing to become a citizen of a different country. The founding documents are clear that "God given rights" may be infringed upon by due process of law, so as long as they are prosecuted and convicted, they have been treated like an American citizen who has made their own choice--and now bear the responsibility for it. In other words, since no law (that I am aware of) is retroactively passed to remove the rights of criminals, then part of "serving their sentence" is no longer being allowed to vote or have a weapon.

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