When to draw gun?

When to draw gun?

This is a discussion on When to draw gun? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I am a store manager of a chain retail store. The company I work for does not allow us to carry while at work. I ...

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Thread: When to draw gun?

  1. #1
    Member Array 45Fight's Avatar
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    Nov 2012
    Southern Oregon

    When to draw gun?

    I am a store manager of a chain retail store. The company I work for does not allow us to carry while at work. I carry regardless because for the last few years our stores have been getting robbed on a regular basis. Within the last few weeks, the same 4 armed African American males have robbed two of our stores in my area, they did not hurt anyone. I am getting a little worried that it will be my store soon. I have been thinking about it and trying figure out what I would do in the situation if I did get robbed. I of course would hand over everything without any issues. However, what I've been thinking about lately is what if I do comply and still get shot? If I don't pull mine out quickly I'll get shot first. Then again there is 4 of them so I probably wouldn't have much of a chance with them anyway. What I am wondering is when do you feel it is a good time to pull out your gun and shoot? Whether it's a situation with only 1 robber or even 4.What do you think would be the appropriate course of action? I would like your ideas to help me make a rational decision if it ever happens to me.

  2. #2
    Member Array 68blackbird's Avatar
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    Nov 2012
    South Texas
    After the Autozone event, you are on notice that if you do have to pull your weapon in that scenario, be prepared to be fired. I know jobs are hard to find these days, but I'd be actively looking for new employment if I was that concerned. In the mean time, if your concerns are that strong, better to alive and unemployed than dead with a job...good luck to you, really hope it does not come to a point you have to draw....
    MASSIVE and miller_man like this.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    West Allis WI
    Unfortunately there is no one right answer, too many scenarios. It pretty much comes down to hopefully being able to think quickly when the situation arises and that one made the right decision with a favorable outcome.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  4. #4
    Member Array Bigpoppa48's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
    Eastern NC
    In my area the Internet Cafe businesses have been getting robbed left and right but last night the table turned on the robbers when the manager drew his weapon and fired off two rounds when one of the robbers attempted to jump the counter to access the cash register. When to draw depends depends depends on the situation,me personally I would draw if I felt my life or the life of a loved one was in danger of great bodily harm or death. But, I would only draw if I felt I could get my gun out and fire off a coulple of rounds without getting myself or some else killed in the process.

  5. #5
    Member Array gooseman1991's Avatar
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    Sep 2012
    If 4 robbers all have weapons pointed at you I think it would be pretty hard to even draw a gun before at least one would fire. In the scenario I have in my mind the only time to draw would be if they started to pick off random targets but to me it's hard to say cause no 2 situations are alike.

    Hopefully it will never happen,
    "These days I go down to Wal-Mart and they sell 'em in the back.
    Some people wanna take 'em away, why don't you go bust them boys that's sellin' crack.
    Guns, whether Remingtons 'er Glocks.
    Come on man it ain't like I'm a slingin' 'em on the block." - Justin Moore

  6. #6
    Member Array Lindy1933's Avatar
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    Feb 2012
    Reno NV
    Tough call since the record of the four armed men was to rob and not kill. Of course that can change in a heartbeat especially if someone else draws a gun. And you may be fired even if you scare them off.
    Retired AF pilot, Vietnam FAC 1967-68

  7. #7
    Member Array Tangochuck's Avatar
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    Nov 2012
    North Olympic Peninsula
    As I understand it, you are concerned that if you do not respond to the threat you expect to happen you and your employees are likely to be killed.

    If so, my advise would be to have hire employees who are willing to conceal and confront to support the BG scenario you've described. Make sure that there are enough of them working at any one time to defend themselves. I'd hire professional training that instructed all on strategies to ensure we were all in tune when how to assess and respond to the level of threat being posed.
    noway2 likes this.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45Fight View Post
    When to draw gun? I would like your ideas to help me make a rational decision if it ever happens to me.
    The Deadly Force Triangle: Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy

    While your state's statutes are going to be the ultimate standard to which you're held if ever you find yourself in a use-of-force situation, this is a pretty good overview of a fairly unassailable position with respect to using deadly force. Of course, each situation is different, and the intensity, speed and nature of each situation is going to dictate whether you feel yourself justified in taking certain actions. And, whether such actions (or even the whole situation itself) end up with your company determining you're a liability ... well, that's something else entirely.

    Suggestion: If you haven't read it, I'd suggest picking up a copy of the book In The Gravest Extreme, by Massad Ayoob.
    mprp and RoadRunner71 like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).

  9. #9
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    Tough question.

    If you are facing four drawn weapons you are already in a world of hurt. You know your abilities better than we do. How fast can you get multiple shots on four armed opponents - under stress - while moving - and taking return fire?

    At that point, your firearm may not be the right tool for the job. I am not saying to roll over and die, but the odds are very much stacked against you. Unless they start shooting, you probably have better odds of survival by laying low, not drawing attention to yourself.

    If you feel that things are going south, well, just pick your opportunity as best you can and hope your training is up to the job. Realize that going up against four armed and prepared attackers is potentially a loosing proposition, but it is better to go down swinging than to just stand there and be shot. There are no guarantees in life.
    "Mind own business"
    "Always cut cards"

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Phaedrus's Avatar
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    Jun 2012
    The others are right- there is no one size fits all answer. I'd hate to get fired for carrying but being dead would be a lot worse. If you CCW and keep it on the QT your employer should never find out, unless you need to draw it. It sounds like the MO is to rob, not kill...but obviously anyone that would point a gun at you over money probably won't hesitate to kill you if something goes wrong.

    I think that most of the time robbers don't expect the victim to fight back. It's unlikely that all four would stand in there and shoot it out with you.

    What are the laws concerning body armor where you live? That's something I'd strongly consider in your position. It's hard to imagine wearing armor would violate any company policy, nor should they even know. If you think the odds are good that you'll be confronted by armed assailants, armor seems like a pretty wise investment. You can buy Level II used police armor for around $200 shipped.

  11. #11
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    Since no 2 situations will be the same, there is no right or wrong answer. The only thing that is a given, is that if a gun is found on you, your employer will terminate you.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

    USAF Retired
    NRA Life Member

  12. #12
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    I highly recommend force-on-force training to help clarify and quantify questions like these.
    ccw9mm likes this.
    The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.
    Ayn Rand

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    Sep 2012
    Exact center of CA
    There are many combat veterans in my family, and their universal advise is that" You have to be violent enough, soon enough!" In a situation where there are four armed robbers, a single defender would need to catch them at the door or some point where they were standing together and not mixed with the crowd at the check stands. That would mean watching the parking area closely. Parking lot cameras,security guards, or even a radio equipped employee collecting carts out in the parking area may even send them to another store. Layering your security is where I would start.

    Personally I think Id keep the gun to myself until things started to go south, if the BGs started shooting or herding people into the back, you don't have much to lose by fighting back. But Id concentrate on making my store a poor target to rob! DR

  14. #14
    Member Array Zombie57's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
    Mid Atlantic
    in a situation like that, money is not worth dying for. Now if you feel the situation has escalated to where you life is at risk then that's a different gunfight. If it's just money let them have it. Your company is going to fire you afterward if you present your weapon so at least make it worth it.
    "The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
    Thomas Jefferson
    Third President of the United States

  15. #15
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    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    You've already accepted the risk and consequences of carrying against company policy. Draw when you have no other recourse to save your life, knowing that in all likihood it's your last day on the job.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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