What is the response to the Brady Campaign pics?

What is the response to the Brady Campaign pics?

This is a discussion on What is the response to the Brady Campaign pics? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I know there is something in these numbers that is misleading. Anyone know what it is off hand or how the data is manipulated? Population ...

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Thread: What is the response to the Brady Campaign pics?

  1. #1
    Member Array SnareMan's Avatar
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    What is the response to the Brady Campaign pics?

    I know there is something in these numbers that is misleading. Anyone know what it is off hand or how the data is manipulated? Population of the countries, etc?



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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    The primary fallacy, IMO: inanimate objects didn't murder anyone. N number of murderers decided to erase X number of lives, most of whom opted to use this or that tool to help them prey on the victims.

    Another fallacy: the rate of violent crime matters; tool selection and preference by the predators, not nearly so much. If the rate of violent crime were compared (population-adjusted), it would make much more sense. Still, it's only one fraction of the picture, even then, addressing nothing about root causes.
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    In Finland there are 32 privately owned firearms per 100 civilians according to the Finnish Ministry of the Interior.[1] By the end of 2006 there were more than 1.6 million licensed firearms.[1] Averaged among Finland's population of 5.3 million it comes to 30.5 per 100 people. Another study puts the number of firearms per capita as high as 0.55 [2].

    -Wikipedia

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    Well I suppose all those guns I lost in that boating accident weren't that big of a loss, seems they were defective.
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    I don't have the links right now, but let's go on MURDERS plain and simple. There are a whole lot of countries which beat us out for that distinction. So, is being killed by a gun any worse than being killed by a knife or a car? Dead is still dead. And that will never change, even if guns were nowhere to be seen. But common sense isn't all that common.
    Last edited by accessbob; December 18th, 2012 at 01:08 PM. Reason: remove extraneous "is"
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    The numbers tell me that there is a problem, but it probably isnt guns. It's our treatment of mental health, and in general the way we treat eachother. And by that I'm talking about the way people treat a gangly awkward kid with aspergers. People still seem to think that teasing and pointing and staring is harmless kid stuff. Unfortunatley adults are just as bad. I think thats the difference between us and some of those other countries
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    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    I suspect those numbers include suicides...

    "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
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    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    Where can I get my Glock painted like the one in the pic btw???

    That thing is SWEET!!!

    "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
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    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    Also interesting...

    In 1917 automobiles MURDERED 9,630 people!

    "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
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    Hey, I can concede that maybe SOMETIMES guns make suicides more "convenient." But we get back to the issue where those who would seek to control all of this are simply not going to stop things with laws. Laws don't stop people intent on doing something. If they are going to do it, they will do it. But then they argue that we made it inconvenient for them so that might save some. If they would spend as much energy trying to figure out how to stop Drunk Driving we would see a potential huge impact on saving lives (well, okay - no because when dealing with 311 million people it is still not even a drop in the bucket).
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    Here's how I responded to one on Facebook. Feel free to use, reuse, whatever.

    The Brady Campaign is completely bias in their reporting because they're anti-gun.

    An example of skewed numbers coming out of the Brady Campaign can be found in their report "Brady Campaign, Children & Guns: A Lethal Combination," which used to be available on their website but has since been removed. The report was blasted pretty well for its misleading data because it performed a “bait and switch” by lumping children ages 0 to 14 with teenagers ages 15 to 17, plus adults up to age 24, contrary to the title of the report.

    In the report, the Brady Campaign stated that one "young person" is killed with a gun every three hours, based on 2,893 deaths in 2002. However, 66 percent of these deaths were 17, 18, and 19 year olds, and many of which were related to gang violence, and also include police intervention and self-defense shootings.

    The Center for Disease Control and Prevention released a fact sheet that said, in 2002, 419 children under 14 were killed with guns; that's 1.1 per day. Only 60 were accidents; that's about 1 every 6 days. For comparison: 113 died from falls, 156 were poisoned, 583 burned to death, 1,214 suffocated, and 2,352 were killed in car accidents.

    Speaking of car accidents...

    When someone is driving drunk and kills a family, no one blames the car. We're not going to ban cars, are we? Maybe we should, because:

    • One person is killed every half-hour due to drunk driving
    • Each year approximately 16,000 are killed in alcohol-related crashes

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    Quote Originally Posted by kerberos View Post
    Where can I get my Glock painted like the one in the pic btw???

    That thing is SWEET!!!

    Contact them and ask them. They'll probably pull the ad. And you're right!
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    Member Array SnareMan's Avatar
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    Here is the interpretation that I came up with for the person I'm discussing this with. Feel free to repost

    As for the infographic... While the trend compared to those countries may be correct, the numbers are misleading as they don't account for population. Finland has 5 million people to our 315 million people and the others are somewhere in between with the closest being Germany at 81 million. Adjusted for population, Finland's 17 becomes 1071 and Canada's 200 becomes 1853. The graphic as shown doesn't make an apples to apples comparison.

    Compare the US to our southern neighbor of Mexico:
    Civilian gun ownership/100,000 is 89 (US) vs 15 (Mexico).
    Raw civilian gun ownership is 270 million guns (US) vs 5 million guns (Mexico)

    The gun homicide rate/100,000 people is 4.2 (US) vs 21.5 (Mexico)
    The raw number of gun homicides in 2009 was 11,000 (US) vs 13,000 (Mexico).

    So the US's 265 million more guns resulted in 2000 less gun homicides than Mexico. More guns does not necessarily mean more gun deaths. One more example - Kennesaw, GA where every home is required by law to own a gun since 1982. The violent crime rate there is about 1/10th the national average and there hasn't been a single murder in the last 25 years there (I only have date through 2007).

    My point being that you have to understand the numbers behind graphs posted by someone with an agenda like the Brady Campaign. Mine numbers were taken from gunpolicy.org and cityrating.com.

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    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    There pic is sorta “apples and oranges”.... Sorta like polls......

    Not taken into consideration is population of the countries, constitutions, laws, culture and many other factors....

    Population in millions (approximate)
    * Finland – 5.3
    * Australia - 22.6
    * England & Wales - 5.6
    * Spain - 47
    * Germany - 81.7
    * Canada - 34.4
    * United States - 312

    (Side note: The state of California has a larger population(37.6) than all of Canada(34.4).
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  15. #15
    Member Array SnareMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    There pic is sorta “apples and oranges”.... Sorta like polls......

    Not taken into consideration is population of the countries, constitutions, laws, culture and many other factors....

    Population in millions (approximate)
    * Finland – 5.3
    * Australia - 22.6
    * England & Wales - 5.6
    * Spain - 47
    * Germany - 81.7
    * Canada - 34.4
    * United States - 312

    (Side note: The state of California has a larger population(37.6) than all of Canada(34.4).
    Yep, exactly. See my above post.
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