How to avoid price gouging - for those starting out

[glockman10mm]

You can't go wrong with the lever! A lever in 44 and a Ruger vaquero in 44 would be a cool and handy combo!

Great thread 10th...sometimes, it takes something like this before we pull our heads out of our hindquarters and take a look around at the status quo. Then we see how silly it is to follow the current trends.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[OD*]

Yep, nothing new here, a good idea is a good idea.

Great article by Ashley C. Emerson, designer of the Express Sights, now called XS Sights.

NOT SO URBAN RIFLE
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/thunder_ranch.htm


The .30-30 in South Africa by Peter Held
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/peter_held.htm

[OD*]

Some good advice here.

10th, what's your favorite .30-30 load?

Either the 150 or 170 can do serious damage, Smitty. I don't know how familiar you are with Tom Horn, but at his trial for the murder of Willie Nickell, two physicians with military experience testified about the wounds. One said they were from soft-nosed 30/30s, the other said they were inflicted by a 45/90. Musta been a nasty set of holes.

[zamboni]

I'm in tune. Having a nice lever-action in 357 fits in nicely condensing your ammo selection in combination with a couple revolvers. Or even in a 44.

[dangerranger]

I have for a long time collected 19th century guns. lever guns, single action revolvers, SXS shotguns, all are effective self defense guns. That's what they were made for. Hunting guns of the day were single shot, think rolling block, falling block, etc... But SD guns just like today needed that quick follow up shot.
I load in my 30 30 everything from 110 gr bullets to 180 gr. The 110 gr I most often use are made for a 30 carbine. They are FMJ and don't tear up meat on small animals like a full load behind a 150 gr soft point would do. The 180s make great hog bullets.
My favorite SD levergun tho is a Marlin 94 in 45 Colt. it will accurately shoot bullets from 160 gr up through 350 gr, making it a 45 70 light! DR

[OD*]

My favorite SD levergun tho is a Marlin 94 in 45 Colt. it will accurately shoot bullets from 160 gr up through 350 gr, making it a 45 70 light! DR

Nice.

My favorite is a toss-up between my '92 Winchester, or my '94 Winchester Trapper. The long action of the '94 Winchester is better for the loads with a larger OAL, same is true for your '94 Marlin action.

[gasmitty]

Either the 150 or 170 can do serious damage, Smitty. I don't know how familiar you are with Tom Horn, but at his trial for the murder of Willie Nickell, two physicians with military experience testified about the wounds. One said they were from soft-nosed 30/30s, the other said they were inflicted by a 45/90. Musta been a nasty set of holes.

I like the 170 gr loads, Winchester Powerpoints seem to group nicely. Just took my Marlin to the range yesterday, and zeroed it in for 50 yards. After that, tight groups were a breeze. I'm not a hunter, so I couldn't tell you what these bullets will do on flesh - but I suspect they would do better than any bitty 5.56 would. And I also suspect the heavier loads will turn most cover into concealment quite nicely as well.

I've run both 150s and 170s through my 336, just curious what the other opinions are. Back east I never saw a deer that ran away from a solid hit with a .30-30!

When I get a few more dozen empty cases I'm going to start playing with reloading the .30-30... that oughtta keep me out of trouble!

[miller_man]

Really like this thread. I have been really wanting a nice 357 mag wheel gun. Been eyeing a SP101 or S&W 686 prob in a 3 or 4", and now with all the high capacity craze going on it seems pretty fitting to keep my eyes open for a good deal. I also really like the idea of a lever action rifle in the same caliber. But the 30-30 does sound like a little better option for a rifle. But I sure do like the idea of two more guns in the same caliber. What are the main differences between the two rifles? Sorry, maybe a pretty loaded question but just trying to get an idea.

[10thmtn]

Taking a look at ballisticsbytheinch, it seems the heavy 158 gr .357 Mag loads out of a Winchester 94 (16" barrel) are doing a bit over 1700 fps.

The 170 gr .30-30 are going over 2200 fps.

So, while the .357 Mag out of a lever gun is certainly no slouch, it is still a handgun cartridge. A .30-30 is a true rifle round.

The .357 Mag lever guns do hold more ammo in the tube (typically 10) versus six for the .30-30.

One more thing to bear in mind with .357 Mag out of a rifle - you can sometimes get under-penetration, as the increased velocity can cause the JHP to expand so quickly that it stops short. Select your load carefully - a good load out of a revolver might not be the best out of a rifle...and that can argue against ammo compatibility.

As you can see from my selection of the .30-30, I want my rifle to be a true rifle. If I need to bust through cover, I want the extra punch of the rifle caliber. That said, I can certainly see the logic of a revolver-caliber lever gun - they will also do the job quite handily.

[miller_man]

Thanks 10thmtn for the info. Good food for thought.

[Rock and Glock]

My 30-30 lever gun is an old Winchester cut-down to "Trapper" length, re-crowned, parkerized (yes, I know somebody ruined a Winchester), but can shoot 1" to 2" groups at 100 yards with irons with a good shooter. I've turned down offers for it. I might / maybe should start looking for either a 44 Mag lever gun or a 45 LC since I now have two Rugers in those chamberings.............

"It's all glockman10mm's fault!"

Love the thread, 10th!

[OD*]

My 30-30 lever gun is an old Winchester cut-down to "Trapper" length, re-crowned, parkerized (yes, I know somebody ruined a Winchester), but can shoot 1" to 2" groups at 100 yards with irons with a good shooter. I've turned down offers for it. I might / maybe should start looking for either a 44 Mag lever gun or a 45 LC since I now have two Rugers in those chamberings.............

"It's all glockman10mm's fault!"

Love the thread, 10th!

I'd love to see the trapper if you have pictures.

[Rock and Glock]

I'd love to see the trapper if you have pictures.

Next time I open the safe I'll shoot some. It is "Trapper" length (I'll measure) by appearances, although not originally the "Trapper" configuration. Also has the larger lever which fits gloves. Kind of an ugly old girl, what Parkerized and all.

[OD*]

Next time I open the safe I'll shoot some. It is "Trapper" length (I'll measure) by appearances, although not originally the "Trapper" configuration. Also has the larger lever which fits gloves. Kind of an ugly old girl, what Parkerized and all.

I look forward to it, sounds neat to me.

I have one that is "Trapper" length, but not the "Trapper" configuration most people think of. In the official Winchester records, they didn't use the term "Trapper" until about 1977, before then, they were referred to as "shorter than standard rifles" or "shorter than standard carbines." The most popular lengths on "short" Winchesters before the National Firearms Act of 1934 were, 12", 14" and 15".

I had one done up as a shorter than standard rifle (16"), noway could I afford the collector's price for an original.




If you're interested in Winchesters, and don't already have a copy, I highly recommend George Madis's "The Winchester Book."

[BkCo1]

I like my 336 in .35 Remington. Had it for many years. I shoot 200 gr and 220 gr bulllets I hand load. Penetration is awsome. The pistol is a Contender on .35 also. I could use it for SD in a pinch.