Personal transfer of firearms - Page 3

Personal transfer of firearms

This is a discussion on Personal transfer of firearms within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; First..... the last 2 shooters, "stole" the guns. Second, the 3rd from the last shooter, bought his legally. So, the latest since those 3 .... ...

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Thread: Personal transfer of firearms

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    First..... the last 2 shooters, "stole" the guns.
    Second, the 3rd from the last shooter, bought his legally.

    So, the latest since those 3 .... out of how many ? It's not a common thing. Also, you can buy a gun and give it as a gift, .... I know to immediate family members but don't know if it extends past that or not. But, what is to stop the woman from doing what she did ? ..... other than to pay the price afterwards if she knowningly gave it to someone she believed might use it in a crime ?

    So, you want to punish millions of people with something, that wouldn't have stopped it even with the measures you suggest ??

    So... you have a problem with my selling or giving my brother (retired after 45 yrs in the military) an old rifle our grandfather owned ..... without asking the Govt if it's OK first ? Or, I can will my guns to anyone ..... without Govt approval first ?? When I know the people I would be leaving them too are .... legal to own them.... since one works in the medical field in the jail (requiring no criminal record of any kind, a background check, etc) and the other is a Sheriffs Officer ??

    Punish the guilty, not the rest of us. If someone buys a gun for someone else, there is a law already against it.... it's called a "straw purchase" . It's already on the books..... did it prevent this lady from doing it ? .... don't know the details so I can't say .... but if she did ... nail her for it. See... the law ... is to punish the 'true' guilty, not the other millions of gun owners along with them.
    Last edited by Eagleks; December 30th, 2012 at 10:36 PM.
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    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."


  2. #32
    Member Array Jaybm's Avatar
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    Transfer Of Firearm Form :

    http://www.beararms.com/PDF/FTUP.pdf

  3. #33
    Member Array Realleycat's Avatar
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    I only sell guns to someone that I know personally. If that doesn't work, I take it to my LGS for him to sell. I would rather pay 15% commission than have my gun end-up in the wrong hands!!
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    Tony

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realleycat View Post
    I only sell guns to someone that I know personally. If that doesn't work, I take it to my LGS for him to sell. I would rather pay 15% commission than have my gun end-up in the wrong hands!!
    Here, even the dealers (per the ATF) can accept the CCL as proof and don't have to do a NICS check, because a background check to get the CCL was already done and verified. So, if someone has a CC license and can show it, then that usually covers it. If something happens to suspend or revoke the license, then they (State) takes the license away.... so they wouldn't have it to show.

    Other states have that as well.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I have sold cars, lawn mowers, chain saws, and countless other pieces of personal property that have the potential to be deadly if used in such a manner and none of them required me to use a 3rd party to do so...I don't think it should be for firearms either.

    As for securities, houses, vehicles, etc. that require a 3rd party that is only for the registration of such which only exists for the purpose of taxation...which is exactly where required registration of firearms would go if that ever happens. Remember, it's not about the money, it's about the money.
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  6. #36
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Simple answer, no. Your suggestion has been proven not to work in states where such laws exist. Also, see the 2nd amendment for key word why answer is no.

    I am not entirely surprised that every now and then someone on this forum about a reasonable infringement law. Second amendment advocates have to stand united on our right to keep and bear arms and that shall not be infringed. The only right the anti-gun media and organizations have is to seek to abolish or amend the 2nd amendment. All of what they seek is a direct violation of the 2nd amendment, period.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  7. #37
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    So who honestly thinks that the lady who bought the guns for the shooter in NY would have gone through an FFL to transfer the guns to him if it was the law at the time?

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post
    BATFE Form 4473 asks if you are the actual buyer. This doesn't mean you can never give it as a gift or sell it. It just means you are not purchasing it in the stead of another buyer (straw purchase). Don't confuse the poor kid at Walmart by saying, "it's for my wife." If you are purchasing the gun, you are the buyer, even if it will be a gift for your kid. I'm not surprised MA law is much more strict.

    Did Nancy Lanza transfer ownership of her firearms to her son, or did he just take them? If she did transfer ownership, how is that illegal? Can't a parent give their adult child a firearm for Christmas anymore?
    Earlier this year I was picking up a handgun after a wait . A man at the counter was filling out the form he said he was buying the weapon for his wife. They took the form back and refused to sell it to him. They informed him she had to come in and fill it out.

  9. #39
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    They took the form back and refused to sell it to him.
    Thats because some gun store clerks are the most mis-informed people alive.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  10. #40
    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    The short answer is NO! I would not want any more restriction mandated by the Gov.
    But, I would support a universal mark on all government forms of ID that would tell me that this person is not in a Prohibited Class. This way in a person to person sale I as the seller could know that this person is not prohibited from owning firearms! The people in prohibited classes will complain that the police and others are using that to discriminate against them. But So What? They made themselves a part of that class not me. It puts their personal responsibility back on them. DR

  11. #41
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    I would support a universal mark on all government forms of ID that would tell me that this person is not in a Prohibited Class.
    So you want me to prove that am I innocent of any guilt first so that I could own a gun?

    Silly me. I thought one was innocent until proven guilty in this country.

    Is that how you are taught to think in California?
    bmcgilvray, phreddy and aus71383 like this.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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  12. #42
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    I find it slightly amazing that many people are so willing to go along with or come up with "reasonable infringements" when it comes to weapons.......
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  13. #43
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    Federal Laws

    I a am 100% in favor of 2nd amendment, don't get me wrong, but some of you in this post do not know what the law actually is. Here it is:
    An individual who does not possess a federal firearms license may not sell a modern firearm to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer in the purchaser's state.[10] Firearms received by bequest or intestate succession are exempt from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, delivery or transportation of firearms into a state other than the transferor's state of residence.[10] Likewise, antique firearms are exempt from these sections of the law in most states. (Antique firearms are defined as those manufactured pre-1899 by US federal law, or modern replicas thereof that do not use cartridges. State law definitions on antique firearms vary considerably from state to state. 10.^ a b Gutmacher, Esq., Jon H. (2006). "Qualifications for Purchasing or Possession of Firearms (Chapter 2)". Florida Firearms Law, Use & Ownership. Warlord Publishing. pp. 2526. "Federal law strictly prohibits the transfer or receipt of any firearm to a non-resident by a non-licensee... Rifles and shotguns are treated somewhat differently from handguns, and federal law does not prevent a qualified citizen who resides in another state from purchasing a rifle or shotgun in a face-to-face transaction with a federally licensed firearms dealer outside his state if: the purchase would be legal in both states, and if the regulatory requirements of both states are complied with. 18 USC 922 (b)(3)"
    I would like to be able to do a private purchase from another person in another state, but doing so makes it a felony for both the buyer and the sellor if the sale is not done through a FFL dealer before you leave that state. Then it becomes registered and I don't particularly want that. If you want an unregistered firearm, you better buy it from someone in your own state.

  14. #44
    New Member Array gunowner63's Avatar
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    For any of you who think this only applies to FLorida redisents, here is the rest of it, you can find it under 18 U.S.C. 922 : US Code - Section 922 (a) (3) and (a)(5) at 18 U.S.C. 922 : US Code - Section 922: Unlawful acts. It is really long and involved, but it will answer any questions, here is a short breakdown:

    (a) it shall be unlawful-
    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

    If a firearm is purchased in a private sale from a resident of a different state than the buyer, without the transfer going through a FFL, the buyer commits a felony violating (a)(3) and the sellor commits a felony violating (a) (5).

    SO please don't give me this crap about :"Gun show loopholes" and such. You can give a firearm to a relative, but if you cross state lines through any carrier, without going through a FFL, other than delivering said firearm IN PERSON, don't go crying to anyone when your ass gets sent to jail. I have to travel across state lines all of the time for my business, and would love to purchase a few firearms while doing it, but it is not worth getting my CCPs and losing the right to vote certain politicians like Obama out, even if the elections are rigged so whoever gets in does whatever the arms dealers and corporations want done.

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...they were in error...had they bothered to read the instructions within the form 4473, they would have learned that...they were being either ignorant or paranoid...I have a LGS who insists on calling in EVERY 4473, regardless if we have a CHL or not...I don't buy from him anymore...had a gunsmith demand that I fill out a 4473 to get my pistol back from his deep cleaning it when I first bought it..I absolutely refused...it took an ATF supervisor's call to make him release it...and he gave the supv. such an attitude that he got an impromptu audit...to see what ELSE he didn't understand...it takes all kinds...

    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Earlier this year I was picking up a handgun after a wait . A man at the counter was filling out the form he said he was buying the weapon for his wife. They took the form back and refused to sell it to him. They informed him she had to come in and fill it out.

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