I honestly don't see members of the military willing to unarm fellow Americans. I know if I was giving an order to go house to house and seize weapons I wouldn't be able to do it.
Read that and understand it.
The Bill of Rights tells the Government what WE THE PEOPLE are free and sets out to list rights that are granted by our creator, not imposed or to be denied by those in power.
You say we are out gunned by the modern army of America, and that it would be a difficult battle at best?
Oh how soon we forget Afghanistan and its freedom fighters who with AK47's and 30 year old armaments, defeated a super power called Russia!
If they can do, I think we would be just fine!
Who says things aren't being planned and that we would be "unorganized" IF a civil war broke out?
O ye of little faith!
The picture does not apply to anything I have said in this thread, in any other thread, or at any time in my life. I never said that the Constitution limits what people can do. However it does outline rights that I wouldn't say were necessarily endowed by our creator. For example, I do not for one second believe that God has granted me the right not to incriminate myself, yet the 5th Amendment does just that.
As far as Afghanistan defeating Russia, it never happened. Just as the United States was not defeated in Vietnam. In each case the superpower lost the stomach for the fight and gave up. Same thing could happen here in the United States. However there were a lot of dead Muslim jihadists by the time the Soviets pulled out.
As far as planned- you may have some plans. If the masses aren't aware they are useless. You and your group can jump up and proclaim that you're the leaders of the struggle. Meanwhile the people in my area will ignore you and end up suspicious of your attempt to put yourself in charge. A group in Florida would ignore someone here if they had been making plans and suddenly said that everyone should follow them. There is no unity and there is no organization. For that to not be true it would have to be known by everyone that will join in the fight.
Thank God I got rid of all my guns yesterday and only come to this board now for entertainment purposes. So, no need to come to my place-- all you'll find in my safe is a slingshot and a box of old rusty 22 shells.
You said "we have further (other) rights as put forth in the Constitution".
The constitution outlines what the government can NOT do, it is not about what WE can do. We have the Bill of Rights, government is LIMITED by the constitution.
Charles I've been doing this for far too long. It appears you live in a fantasy world where you and your friends are going to defeat the American military without being harmed in any way and then everyone is going to unite behind you. That being the case, I don't want to be on your side. But let's look a little closer at some of the things you've been talking about.
You said that the Russians were defeated in Afghanistan. That's untrue, but we'll ignore that. The jihadists were receiving funding and arms from the CIA. Since you're looking to go to war with the government, you can rest assured that won't be happening for you. So where are you going to get your mines, bombs, RPGs, Stinger missiles, heavy machine guns, and mortars? Who is going to be flying resupply missions to ensure that you have uninterrupted access to ammunition, food, medicine, and other supplies?
You've talked about your "connections" and how high up in government they are. I personally have contacts at several of the letter agencies, throughout the special operations command, and in the legislative branch of the federal government (and in the last executive branch) and none of them are talking about or concerned with the things you say there is a mass conspiracy to turn against the government about. Some of these people are my best friends, I know what they are and are not worried about. This thread doesn't contain anything that worries any of them. Again, it is very possible that there are elements that are ready to do just as you say. But it isn't nearly as widespread as you assert or it would be more well known.
In the end, I stand by my initial statement. When they come for your guns, you can stand and fight. If you're well equipped and trained you're likely to be able to inflict some heavy damage upon those that are performing the raid, but in the end they will win. You will not have your guns, it is largely up to you whether you are dead or in custody at the conclusion. If enough people follow your example it is likely that the will to perform these raids would erode until it isn't possible to field teams to do it, so the war is a victory. But the individual battles will see many, many losses. You don't suddenly become Rambo because you envision yourself as one with our tricorn wearing ancestors. We can huff and puff and try to talk our way out of corners, but in the end these are the simple facts. The question isn't how it turns out for those that fight. The question is how many are willing to pay the price for fighting. I'm not optimistic that the number of people that are truly ready to fight and die for their beliefs is all that high.
I completely agree with you. Some of these people are delusional to think that they stand a chance to fighting off a trained military or police force that is there with the purpose to take your guns. The military today has done nothing but fight an asymmetrical warfare for the last 11 years and has become pretty good at fighting an unknown enemy. To believe one lone ranger with maybe an AR-15 and a few pistols is going to successfully going to stand and fight is doing nothing but dying for what he believes in. In my honest opinion the best thing everybody can do is aggressively fight tooth and nail against new gun rules and make our voice heard. The worst thing we can do is just sit back and say it isn't going to happen and do nothing.
It is fine to sit here and think that you can single handily fight off the "bad guys" if that makes you feel better but to actually think that is a viable plan is insane.
So after the government comes and relieves me of my arms, can I file a claim with my insurance agent for all my stolen firearms? Just sayin'
Let's see: I'm a young twenty-year-old Marine, soldier, sailor... who has been well indoctrinated to protect my homeland from "the enemy". I've been deployed to Iraq, then Afghanistan, and now my superiors are telling me that the enemy is at home, and that I'll now be deployed against those "evil " ones who defy the current regime. Those would be my mom, my dad, sisters, brothers, grandparents, aunts, uncles—all those near and dear to me, those people I've been told that I and my buddies have been facing death to protect. I'm not stupid!; I know the regime is a pack of liars and weenies who are cutting costs that are meant to keep me alive; I'm sick to death of being encumbered by "rules of engagement" which forbid me firing on some rag-head who is burying an IED outside my perimeter. Now, these same idiots are sending me to the United States to possibly have to fire on my own people? Although I'm sure there would be those who'd have no scruples in the matter, somehow, I believe these would be in the minority. Somehow, I believe there would be a general uprising within our military which would turn to our favor. Back in the late Fifties and Sixties, I was one of the most gung-ho, bad-arsed Marines in the Corps but, I guarantee you, had a Gunny, Top, lieutenant, captain... general given me the order to fire on an American household, there would have been a dead Gunny, Top, lieutenant, captain... general... and likely a dead sergeant, but there are times when a man must make an ethical decision based on his own system of ethics. So be it.
By the way, Echo_Four, I actually understand what you say, and agree with most of it. I'm not completely unaware of the ramifications of my own actions, and I don't intend to be standing stupidly at my door defying a SWAT team with my 1911 in hand should such a situation come to pass. I'm not charging a machine-gun-nest single-handedly with my trusty M-1. I intend to keep my finger well on the political-pulse, and should even the approach of such actions be suspected, I already have plans in place to become very scarce until the chaos breeds organization. Sometimes it's best to run away, to live and fight another day. However, if caught by surprise, I will stand, if for no other reason than that my violent demise may instil passion in others.
I am a firm believer that—and I paraphrase—Anyone who is willing to give up his freedom for protection, deserves neither.
When (not if) it comes to pass, I would hope, and expect States like Arizona and TEXAS to stand firm, and tell the muslam-in-chief to go f himself. I'd much rather see a civil war, than lay down and become another Poland or Austria. Collectively it could be possible - individually - not a reasonable expectation.
I think we can agree to disagree on who will do what and who will cower in fear of the government.
As for the "Internet commandos" comment, speak for yourself. I am a very capable and trained individual who knows his own limitations. I think anyone who makes the above comment is sadly lacking in intelligence and in need of a long time out.
It's very easy to post remarks about someone when you know nothing about the person you insult.
So, do what you feel is your best option and pray that they don't knock on your door. If they do, give them your guns and call it a day. You can't fight the military so why bother, right?
I am not one to take advice from the law enforcement or military community that I am not personally involved with. I know the score and I know where I stand. Your mileage may vary based on numerous factors but please, just because you don't know me, don't discount my abilities or connections.
I am not trying to "run the show" and I personally don't give a crap if you die on your feet or if you lay down your arms and die on your knees. I know what I will do and how I will go about it so no need to worry about it.
I'll be with the people who chose to stand and fight. You know, the "ones who you don't think are organized because you haven't heard about it".
I would double check my intel because it appears to be lacking.