Maybe We Need To Look At....

Maybe We Need To Look At....

This is a discussion on Maybe We Need To Look At.... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; It's not the guns that we should be focusing on... Look at the common factors here.... FDA failing us??? Eric Harris age 17 (first on ...

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Thread: Maybe We Need To Look At....

  1. #1
    Member Array DandLfam's Avatar
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    Maybe We Need To Look At....

    It's not the guns that we should be focusing on... Look at the common factors here.... FDA failing us???

    Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

    Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

    Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

    Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

    Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

    Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

    Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

    Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

    A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

    Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

    A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

    Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

    TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

    Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

    James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

    Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

    Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

    Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

    Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

    Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

    Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

    Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

    Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

    Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

    Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

    Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

    Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
    (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

    Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

    Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

    Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

    Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

    A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

    Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

    Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

    Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

    Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
    Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

    Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
    New York high school.

    Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

    What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az

    What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado

    What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or

    What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
    Roberts is the only one that I haven't heard about being on drugs of some kind.
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    I can't really agree or disagree. It's just a matter of too many factors to account for and it's all but impossible to tell what is cause and what is effect.

    Assuming your post is correct, and I will assume it is, these children were on those drugs for a reason. Is it the reason that pushed them to their act or the drug? We don't really know, and it most certainly could be both. It's the very essence of why mental health is such a difficult issue to tackle.

    It is definitely good food for thought though. There's too much potential for causality to ignore it.
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    Re: Maybe We Need To Look At....

    Anti-psychotics,anti-depressants, and particularly anti- ADHD meds wreck the mind and its ability for rational thought. This is well studied and well documented. It is not the fact that these drugs are prescribed that's causing
    the problem, it's who they are prescribed to. Most psychiatric drugs are NOT FDA approved for distribution to minors. We see what some of the side effects are.

    Prescribe a drug that changes brain chemistry and be prepared for some crazy stuff to happen...


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    I shared this from a Gun Dealer in Ohio, Buckeye Sporting Goods. I can only assume as well that the above stated is fact. Regardless, I would agree with hwarang54... change the original intent of the brain chemistry sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, again.

    Just food for thought. We all know it's not the guns that are killing people... it's the people behind them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DandLfam View Post
    I shared this from a Gun Dealer in Ohio, Buckeye Sporting Goods. I can only assume as well that the above stated is fact. Regardless, I would agree with hwarang54... change the original intent of the brain chemistry sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, again.

    Just food for thought. We all know it's not the guns that are killing people... it's the people behind them.
    Well it's all very conditional. Some folks have "bad" brain chemistry going in. They need a change to bring them closer to 'normal'.

    The other side of this coin is for every person on your list there are hundreds of recipients of those same drugs that haven't harmed anyone, and never will harm anyone. And there's also hundreds of people who have killed themselves or others that have never taken any of those medications. It's a tough problem to get a handle on, regardless.
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    Problem is, it's gonna' be tough to determine if the original mental issue (the reason for the prescription) is the cause of the snap or whether it's the drug itself that pushed the button.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

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    I in no way am grouping or suggesting we need to ban every single drug that was used. I don't think banning anything will do one bit of good, quite the opposite actually. As I feel all would agree here on DC, banning has done nothing but cause more harm then good. Drunk driving is illegal, yet thousands are killed yearly.

    Simply put, there are MANY other factors from the drugs our doctors prescribe, to the parents, to the movies we allow our children to partake in.

    JMO FWIW
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    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    All of these people had issues before taking the medication. So, can you say it might have been much worse if they hadn't been on medication, or because they were on medication they acted this way. No one knows the answer to this. We need to be looking into what is shaping the minds of these monsters before the need for meds. Social influences, enviromental influences, genetics, it would be interesting to go back in their family gene pool and see what is there. It is not the tool they use to carry out their demented acts of violence. These kinds of medications have been known to cause problems in young people without a fully developed brain, and fully developed social skills. All agree that something must be done to minimize this kind of behavior, but doing the wrong thing will make it much worse. I tend to lean toward their being violently mentally defective to start with. Add in a non exsitent mental health system to confine these dangerous people, and then saturate their minds with violence through movies and video games and you have a recipe for disaster.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    Well it's all very conditional. Some folks have "bad" brain chemistry going in. They need a change to bring them closer to 'normal'.

    The other side of this coin is for every person on your list there are hundreds of recipients of those same drugs that haven't harmed anyone, and never will harm anyone. And there's also hundreds of people who have killed themselves or others that have never taken any of those medications. It's a tough problem to get a handle on, regardless.
    And that looks like almost exactly like the same sentence gun owners use... "The other side of this coin is for every gun owner on your list there are hundreds of owners of those same guns that haven't harmed anyone, and never will harm anyone."

    That's why it is such a convoluted problem, and media coverage plays a big part in it!
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    Re: Maybe We Need To Look At....

    I also fault the creators of the Hippa Law (spelling). While I do understand and cherished "confidentiality", in some cases, the truth is needed.

    I remember one of my student's got upset...irate because the lunchroom ran out of "hot pockets". Well she started cursing and eventually the situation escalated to the point where an administrator had to intervene. Once the administrator arrived and saw that the young lady began to make spitting motions, he told everyone to clear out. Well after the situation was over, he told us that the student was HIV+, but couldn't inform us due to Hippa.

    The sad thing about reading this post...somewhere right now in America some Dr. just prescribed to a new prescription of one of the drugs listed above to a new client!

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    The Standards for Privacy of Individually Identifiable Health Information (“Privacy Rule”) establishes, for the first time, a set of national standards for the protection of certain health information. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (“HHS”) issued the Privacy Rule to implement the requirement of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (“HIPAA”).
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    Y'all need to check-out what HFCS (High Fructose Corn Syrup) does to blood/brain chemistry. It's in EVERYTHING (check your labels) and is rapidly being discovered to attribute to ALL SORTS of health issues. Problem is, next to air, water & salt, it's the cheapest filler available to food/beverage manufacturers. So they lobby heavily for its safety. Ever wonder why all these previously unheard-of ailments & maladies are now effecting our children in epidemic proportions? When you graduated from high school, did 25% of your class have high blood pressure? Did 30% have asthma? Did 20% require Ritalin & Prozac to function?

    It's simple really, we're overfed, undernourished & over-drugged. And it's hardest on the youth because the food chain became completely broken about 20-25 years ago. They've never had a chance. It's NOT your imagination. Folks are getting ever-increasingly sick & stupid. Life Insurance actuaries will tell you that, for the first time EVER, 20 year olds will, by statistics, die 15 years younger than their parents (we) will. There is an answer, but it sure doesn't come...in a prescription.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

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    I don't know that the drug themselves are the problem. Like TX expat stated, there are many many more people on these drugs that do not go on rampages than there are those that do. Obviously these kids have issues, otherwise they wouldn't have been put on the drugs in the first place. I think part of the deeper issue is the thought that these drugs will just fix the problem. So kids get put on the drugs and that is that. There is little to no follow up. Minimum or no therapy. Basically no one is talking to these kids to see where they are at in their heads. Parents aren't parenting and doctors aren't doctoring. Giving a kid a bottle of psychiatric pills without the benefit of some sort of therapy is not going to help them with their deeper issues. It is little different than plopping a kid down in front of the TV or video game for 8-10 hours a day with no real person to person interaction and expecting them to become a well adjusted adult.

    The pills are not the problem. Treating the pills as if they are the end all be all fix is the problem.

    Violent video games are not the problem. Using a television and an Xbox to raise your child is the problem.

    Guns are not the problem. Having kids grow up in the XBox and Prozac nation and having little or no real personal interactions with other people and never learning an ounce of empathy is the problem. People with empathy can have access to guns and will not go into a school, or mall, or church, or theater and start executing their fellow human beings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    I can't really agree or disagree. It's just a matter of too many factors to account for and it's all but impossible to tell what is cause and what is effect.

    Assuming your post is correct, and I will assume it is, these children were on those drugs for a reason. Is it the reason that pushed them to their act or the drug? We don't really know, and it most certainly could be both. It's the very essence of why mental health is such a difficult issue to tackle.

    It is definitely good food for thought though. There's too much potential for causality to ignore it.
    Makes no difference. People with these problems and/or on these drugs should not have access to firearms, or any other weapons. Sometimes you have to proteect people from themselves.

    By the way, is anyone else having trouble with double posting on this site? I don't on others. Just curious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Makes no difference. People with these problems and/or on these drugs should not have access to firearms, or any other weapons. Sometimes you have to proteect people from themselves.

    By the way, is anyone else having trouble with double posting on this site? I don't on others. Just curious.
    And here I thought you were just old and repeated yourself a lot!




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