Anyone thought about having a FFL dealer be middle man when selling guns privately?

This is a discussion on Anyone thought about having a FFL dealer be middle man when selling guns privately? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I've not seen anything like this so I thought I'd put this out there to see what people here thought about this. Living in SD ...

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Thread: Anyone thought about having a FFL dealer be middle man when selling guns privately?

  1. #1
    Member Array justintimeagain's Avatar
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    Anyone thought about having a FFL dealer be middle man when selling guns privately?

    I've not seen anything like this so I thought I'd put this out there to see what people here thought about this. Living in SD I bought my handgun recently. So in doing so the hardware store that sold it to me at which I work at made me fill out the SF 4473 form then proceeded to make the "call" to ATF for instant conformation on my background. It did pass of course. In a private sale though I truely think that as all guns have serial numbers unless they're too old to actually have one placed on them from time of making of course, but before a transaction happens I think a FFL dealer should be the median to such transaction to which he/she then can make that "Call" and like a $20 transaction fee must be payed. That way half of the transaction goes to supporting say fire arms classes to pay the person to hold it, then a 1/4 of the rest goes to the FFL dealer for his/hers time involved in the transaction. The rest goes to the state to which can be put into one and ONLY ONE fund collecting interest to which it will be used for mental health issues ONLY like classes or soemthing like such. Have there been talks around like this in here if so let me know as I think instead of limiting or even wasting the federal governments money our money on this mental health thing they seem to want to push there could be a way to fund this legally. Also, if anyone that doesn't abide by this lawful transaction it could be punishable like say $10,000 dollar fine and minimum of 1 year in federal prision since really it would be a federal effence. you have to make it seriously strict as hell otherwise people will break it. Yes people will try to do such as well but you can also implement another law that states that ATF must be allowed to visually verafy your gun to your registured serial number. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, it doesn't matter. If it fires a projectile and has a serial number by a manufacture then you're responsable for it till it's phyically sold from you.

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    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Listen, FFL's generally charge $20 to $30 for a transfer. Which is what you are talking about. If you think you will get an FFL to LOWER their price AND share it, forget about it. If you get anyone else involved I would expect them to go up to $50 plus.

    FWIW, all my private sales I have asked to see their CC permit. Which doubles as a background check in NC.

    And how will this plan stop unlawful sales? It's already illegal to sell to someone that is a prohibited person, and that does not stop some folks from doing it anyway. Increasing punishment probably will not either. Not like anyone really gets punished.

    Here's my plan. If you are not capable of legally owning a firearm maybe you should not be free in society. There's one to chew on.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Here the cheapest transfer I've seen is $20 if you have a CHL and they don't have to call it in otherwise it's $25 and as high as $50.
    How about if your a violent convicted felon and you get caught with Illegal possession of a firearm they cut your hands off,bet you don't hold another one
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    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    If you do personally know the buyer it might not be a bad idea with buyer paying FFL fee.
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    I have owned the same guns for years without trading or selling any until recently, before the panic by the way, and unless I personally knew the person's background i.e. LE, Military, CCW holder or instructor I had no problem with asking for a DL copy prior to the sale or trade.

    Now even criminals have a DL but at least I had a record of the event in case something happened. The NICS check is not nor ever been set up for individuals to call in a check on someone. I still remember the days when you could go to your local PD and have them run an NCIC check on the serial number of the gun before you bought it but that is long gone.

    I would never, ever knowingly sell a firearm to a felon nor anyone I knew had "issues" shall we say but how will you know? Can a simple hotline number for an individual to run a check solve some of the issues in regards to private sales without a ban on everything? Who knows.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    I may be missing the point here but all this is supposed to accomplish what other than saddle folks that didnt need checked anyway for their background since they obey the law with some other fee and red tape??

    If a criminal wants a gun he wont get one where he has to be checked to get it. If a person is planning his first crime he wont either and the background check wont matter since he hasnt done anything yet to flag him.

    They can background and serial number till the cows come home and it wont do squat but make Joe law abiding have to jump thru more hoops. You cant make something like that retro active anyway even if it would work which it wont. It would be impossible for most to know who they got all their private sale guns from etc etc so retro would unenforcable.

    As hard as this may sound if a person commits a violent crime with a gun and you let him out of jail he likly will just get another gun and do it again. Its not the gun or availability of them that needs addressed. Its the criminal and what we do with him once hes been caught.
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    First, when a NICS call is made (to the FBI not the ATF) , they do not give them serial numbers, etc. They are "verifying" you , not the gun. You could be buying more than one gun all on that same NICS call... it would not matter.

    Second, so you are saying..... if I wanted to sell my brother (retired US Army officer) my grandfathers old shotgun, or give it to him, I should have to go thru an FFL to make sure he's legal. Any private seller... is required by law to be fairly certain the person they are selling it to, is legal to own the gun. If you aren't certain ... go thru an FFL ..... or guess what, if you go thru background checks for your CCL .... and they show you one, they've been cleared.

    Can I not sell a gun or leave it in my will to my SIL .... who's a Sheriff's Deputy, without the Govt getting involved and telling me it's OK ?

    Do you realize, in several states ..... the ATF has notified dealers that NO NICS check is required if they have an active conceal carry license .... because if they have an active license all of the checks and background checks have been done ? If it weren't 'active', it means they messed up and lost it for some disqualifying reason, or let it expire.

    Get another gun ... really .... out of jail ? A guy got ticked today, McDonalds .... got his order wrong..... long story, but he got ticked at someone in another car who wouldn't let him cut in .... jumped out with a shotgun and took a shot at him. The guy ...... released from prison in October with a couple of felonies, and illegal for him to own a gun.

    Do you really think.... he walked in a gun store and bought it ? No, he didn't. When I was working in system.... I could tell you places you could go to and have a gun in 5 minutes, for $50-$200, no questions asked.... and none of them legally owned by the guy selling them to you. NYC .... police officers were arrested for selling guns "illegally" and trafficing guns ... you think it's john-doe citizen doing most of it ? Lots of them are stolen guns, sold in the back alleys. Walked into a bar that had great sandwiches and right into the middle of a gun selling going on .... of military weapons stolen from Armories. Called a Major is the police dept to get some guys and come down there. No one showed and guns disappeard. Checking into this Major, guess who called them and told them to get the guns out of there that they had been made. They let him 'retire'.

    Want to talk about Fast & Furious.

    Don't blame John Doe citizen who obeys the laws for all this stuff.. if someone sells or gives a gun to a known felon, etc..... put their rear in prison for the next 20 yrs. .... it will start to cut down on it.

    Making it illegal to do private sales on law-abiding citizens...... is NOT going to do a thing to stop illegal gun sales, and back alley deals, or people who "stole the guns" like they did in the last 2 shootings.

    How many illegal aliens are walking around with false id's & SSN 's of real people ? How many of them would pass a NICS check ? Probably many.

    you could go to your local PD and have them run an NCIC check on the serial number of the gun before you bought it but that is long gone.
    A NICs check cannot be done on a gun, a NICS check is ON YOU, not the gun, it is illegal for them to keep any record of the gun and/or serial number and don't even ask for it.... they'll ask handgun or long gun, to verify you are of legal age to buy it. Second, if we call our PD, they will tell us if a gun reports as stolen, and can check the State and FBI databases on it to see if it's been stolen and then will let us know back. YOUR PD , just apparently doesn't want to do it.
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  9. #8
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    Lets cut through the bull and get to the point.

    I'm an FFL and if they require you to get a background check for a private transfer...well then, good for me.

    Good for me why?

    Well, apparently you were too dumb to see and understand that now I've got you by the balls. Because of your unrealistic and utopian view of the world and life in general, that suggested fee of 20 bucks is amusing to me.

    I say amusing, because, YOU don't dictate what I charge for a transfer. I do. And now that you HAVE to do it to be "legal" in the eyes of a few tyrants, and because you don't understand that the background check does register you as a gun owner, and because you aren't smart enough to understand that the only reason for registration is the eventually confiscation....well...I am going to make you pay for being stupid.

    I am going to charge you only 100 dollars per transfer.

    Thats right...100 bucks.

    Thats really not a bad deal if you think about it. Since there are only a total of 8 ATF Examiners for the state of Arkansas, and since you want them to put eyes on your gun, to get that transaction cleared it will only take six months for them to "approve" it.

    The 100$ fee is just to start the process. I'm going to charge a 2 dollars a day for storage, so that the transaction should only cost an average of 340 bucks...if it only takes six months.Notice that I said "should" because some of the ATF agents have other things to do and putting eyes on a gun sale is not real high on their list of priorities and if one happens to lean a bit to the anti-gun side, well, it could take longer.

    To counter that though,and because the room in my safe is limited, once they do approve the transaction, I'll give you one call to pick up your gun. If you don't come to get it the first day that I call you, I am going to sell it to someone else. That's right, you have ONE day to pick it up.

    Oh, I understand that you may have to take off from work, or if you are in the hospital, or out of state or something and you cant get it, but hey...I only have so much room you know? And NO, someone else cant pick it up for you because they are not the actual buyer and of course that would be a "straw purchase" right?

    Of course none of this applies to criminal offenders because they don't legally buy guns anyway..just YOU.






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    Member Array OldMick's Avatar
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    My feeling is that there are more than enough gun laws/regulations without adding the requirement to monitor direct sales. Gun laws aren't the issue - why add another one?

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    Gun laws aren't the issue - why add another one?
    Because most people are too simple to understand that a law only works if you choose to abide by it.
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    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    None of this truly matters folks.

    The current problem is not with any of us that legally and responsibly carry weapons. The problem is with the irresponsible dirt bags, and nothing -- no process whatsoever -- will stop an irresponsible dirt bag from illegally acquiring a gun.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
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    Oh...and another thing...

    chiefjason...for you my friend, your private transaction will be free. I like your posts.

    For anyone else that thinks its a good idea...100+ bucks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Here's my plan. If you are not capable of legally owning a firearm maybe you should not be free in society. There's one to chew on.
    That's a pretty harsh statement.

    If it's not legally required to pass thru a FFL for a private transfer, why do it? Unless you have reason to suspect the buyer cannot legally possess a firearm, you are not responsible for what he does with it. If having a paper trail for private gun trasactions were needed, there'd be a law requiring it. Comply with what your state/federal laws require.
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    Senior Member Array royal barnes's Avatar
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    If I sell a firearm to an individual I must know him/her personally or they must have a valid N.C. driver's license and a current CHL. I'll make a copy of both for my records. A receipt will be needed both ways. I believe this is a perfectly legal way to accomplish a sale. I don't need or want the Feds involved.

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    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    Personally I am not comfortable selling a gun to someone I don't know and know well. In fact,I just won't do it.Someone told me, and I don't know if this is true, That in Maryland private sales are done at the State Police HQ. They do the back ground check for the deal and if it's ok, then make the deal. Members from Maryland what say you.
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