This should help ! Teachers Train to Tackle Gunmen

This is a discussion on This should help ! Teachers Train to Tackle Gunmen within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; At my school, they have implemented a "new plan" which involves the teachers "confronting" the gunman. so far, there is no explanation as to what ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    At my school, they have implemented a "new plan" which involves the teachers "confronting" the gunman. so far, there is no explanation as to what that means or how we are supposed to implement the plan...
    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

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  3. #32
    Member Array C Paul Lincoln's Avatar
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    As I've said before, I'm a principal in a smaller high school. We have always practiced lockdown drills, and I have empowered my staff to take actions other than cowering in darkened and locked rooms with their kids. That includes escaping the building and counterattacking if somebody enters their room. We have known since Columbine that hiding under tables isn't the answer.

    After Columbine, law enforcement changed tactics to rapid entry teams, and if you talk to individual officers, they will tell you that it they arrive alone and hear continuing gunfire many will enter the building alone. Law enforcement has changed their response because what was being done wasn't effective. Schools need to change their response also.

    Just yesterday, I attended training provided by DHS that covered school shooting preparation and response. Some of those in the class were teachers and principals, some were law enforcement. The instructor of course talked about restricting access points, lockdown, and barricading of doors. Unlike most training in the past, however, this instructor referred to the ALICE protocol, which includes ESCAPE as one option in response to school violence (Alert, Lockdown, Inform, Counterattack, Escape).

    This was a step forward, but when the instructor recommended that at the sound of gunfire principals lock themselves in their office and make themselves small, some of us spoke up. The instructor dismissed the thought that principals would attack a gunman. I told him, I PLAN TO FIGHT! With whatever I have -- improvised weapons, hands, etc. The best weapon is, after all, your brain. I know my school well, and think I cold likely approach a shooter and have a fair chance of tackling them. The average school shooting is over before police can arrive -- we need to buy time for students to lockdown or escape. In almost every school, there are a few sheepdogs who have the fight mentality. Unarmed against a handgun or rifle, my fight may be short, but any delay or distraction of the shooter I can cause gives teachers and students time to escape, and puts the police that much closer.

    Unfortunately, most school principals don't think tactically like those of us on this forum. I don't know how to change this, except to continue to do training and planning with them. The daily business of the school is learning and teaching -- it isn't realistic to make every principal a tactical expert, but we can incrementally increase their mental preparation and training.

    C Paul Lincoln
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array Yoda's Avatar
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    This should help ! Teachers Train to Tackle Gunmen

    Quote Originally Posted by mwhartman View Post
    The NBC family of stations are the most liberal and egregious at twisting the facts to meet their agenda. Therefore, I find that watching these teachers tackling grown adults who weigh much more and have an agenda truly disturbing. Perhaps I missed it but none of the "perpetrators" resisted during the takedown or after. I have serious doubts that this training will accomplish much. But, most of the liberal/progressive agenda is to make them feel good about something they are doing!!!!!
    I think you are wrong. Seems like CBS is worse.


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  5. #34
    Member Array Goldy49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texspeech View Post
    And they will probably want you to call the police so they can turn themselves in. All those signs do is let the nut jobs know that the schools are a turkey shoot. I work in the 3rd largest ISD in dfw and I would like to see select teachers and administrators receive the training (not just a weekend course but extensive training) to be able to have a firearm at their disposal(my wife tends to disagree) whether it be on their person or in a locked cabinet where they can retrieve it quickly. I work with several emotionally disturbed kids who can become extremely violent at the drop of a hat. We've already had two teachers injured this year. Who's to say one of them couldn't bring a gun to school and go on a rampage? More than likely not but a disgruntled parent who is upset with the teachers or going through a custody dispute and is just totally distraught might. Call me a hypocrite if you will, but I do not send my child to a public school. I work in public school and see what's out there. Don't get me wrong, there are some great families and children at my school but they are starting to become the minority. I am tired of us catering to the lowest common denominator and forsaking the good ones. Sorry for the rant, I am just fearful of the world my child in which my child to grow up. I know I can't protect them forever but I would like to as long as I can. I am a child of the 80's and I remember how different(safe) it was. The worst thing we had to worry about was someone being caught with cigarettes or a pocket knife. We need desperately another Reagan..and another Patton. Sorry, I'm done now.
    I wish I had something that was intelligent to say - something where readers would say, "Geez, that guy knows what he is talking about." I taught for 40 years in public schools. I coached both football and wrestling. I was the teacher that
    "nobody messed with" (except the administration and the school board who thought I was too demanding and the classroom and the practice field were too different domains and I should know that).

    Growing up, the worst thing a kid could do would be to get caught chewing gum, smoking in the john, or get in a fight in
    phy. ed. (OK, I guess some girls got "in trouble" - I am not making light of the last one! That is still a problem).
    However, violence in school has changed. Even though they should do so, way too many teachers choose to stay in their
    classrooms when the bell rings so they can avoid confrontations. Our job "was" to stop confrontations before they
    happened by being in the hallway during passing time. Also, we are not supposed to physically confront a person
    in school should the "need" arise. Teachers are caught in a bind sometimes as to what they should do, could do, and
    would do out of political correctness sometimes.

    I know, I am rambling, but as an avid shooter and gun owner, I am going to make this comment. As much as I hate to
    think we have to have our school armed for the safety of our kids and staff, maybe we should have two trained and
    armed staff members and at least one custodian (they have the range to be anywhere in building and their safety is as
    big a problem as anyone's) trained and armed in every building. It wouldn't hurt if the principal was also trained and
    armed, but having two unknown teachers armed and trained might not be a bad idea. Damn, I hate to think we
    have come this far from chewing gum and smokin' in the john, but it would appear that we have. I am glad I am retired.

    I hope this made a little sense.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    It's amazing to me that teachers are training to fight back against an attacker, and nobody on this thread has anything to say other than how unrealistic it is, or how worthless it is. Here I would've thought that people would be glad to hear that these teachers want to do something to protect their kids other than hide.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
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  7. #36
    Member Array Goldy49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    It's amazing to me that teachers are training to fight back against an attacker, and nobody on this thread has anything to say other than how unrealistic it is, or how worthless it is. Here I would've thought that people would be glad to hear that these teachers want to do something to protect their kids other than hide.
    I didn't think I said anything was worthless or unrealistic. I thought I suggested something semi-valid and realistic.

    There was a High School Principal earlier on this thread who also had some valid ideas (I can't believe I just supported an
    administrator who couldn't spell "could" - OK, a semi-LOL because I can't type very well either).

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldy49 View Post
    I didn't think I said anything was worthless or unrealistic. I thought I suggested something semi-valid and realistic.

    There was a High School Principal earlier on this thread who also had some valid ideas (I can't believe I just supported an
    administrator who couldn't spell "could" - OK, a semi-LOL because I can't type very well either).
    Ok, MOST people on this thread.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    At my school, they have implemented a "new plan" which involves the teachers "confronting" the gunman. so far, there is no explanation as to what that means or how we are supposed to implement the plan...
    A plan with no details is simply a wish.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    It's amazing to me that teachers are training to fight back against an attacker, and nobody on this thread has anything to say other than how unrealistic it is, or how worthless it is. Here I would've thought that people would be glad to hear that these teachers want to do something to protect their kids other than hide.
    I dont think its opposing the fight back mind set they oppose or me. Its the silliness of bringing nothing to a gunfight but bare hands and good intentions. What I fear is that God forbid this happens again and instead of arming teachers janitors somebody in the schools to respond what we will read is how brave but now dead teachers were mowed down by evil weapons as they valiantly tried to protect the kids. And off to another round of we must do away with these evil weapons.
    I know I know martial arts etc etc. You cant make Jackie Chan out of teachers. And I imagine even Jackie is gonna be headed the other way fast faced with a lunatic with a gun and no stuntmen to send in.
    The mindset is good the tactics are bad and even if teachers can manage to swarm the guy and get him down disarm him some of those will die in attempt.
    As I said brave, good mindset but sending unarmed GGs up against armed BGs is just feel good suicide.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I will agree that doing something, anything, to fight back is better than cowering in a corner with pee on the floor waiting to be shot. I just think it is woefully inadequate in the grand scheme of things. Good start maybe, but that's about it.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    At my school, they have implemented a "new plan" which involves the teachers "confronting" the gunman. so far, there is no explanation as to what that means or how we are supposed to implement the plan...
    Well lacking anything else there is always the teachers traditional howitzer. "YOUNG MAN THIS WILL GO ON YOUR PERMANENT RECORD!!!!!!"

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    The teachers themselves can't get the law changed to allow them to carry, so they're doing what they can. I appluad them, as opposed to chastising them.
    C Paul Lincoln likes this.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

  14. #43
    Member Array pappou68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Almost anything is better than blindly screaming, fainting and wilting en masse. Couldn't be any worse than the shooting galleries most such places are right now.

    Of course, they could do a whole lot better.
    To bad the moronic naysayers always propose new laws that they think will turn BGs away. New laws just mean more screaming and cowering because honest citizens will have nothing with which to counter a BG commiting a massacre.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    The teachers themselves can't get the law changed to allow them to carry, so they're doing what they can. I appluad them, as opposed to chastising them.
    Agree the teachers themselves are being very brave and should be applauded for their efforts. Its the methods they are being forced to use thru no fault of their own that I object too.

  16. #45
    Member Array pappou68's Avatar
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    This is just a feel good doing something measure. What will most likely happen is that some teachers are going to get hurt. Train these teachers with a weapon, not their hands. Unless they're a Bruce Lee type, this training is not going to make much of a difference. Hand to hand needs to be a practiced, second nature response. A few classes ain't gonna do it.
    Ghost1958 likes this.

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