"Universal" Background Checks...For or Against? - Page 2

"Universal" Background Checks...For or Against?

This is a discussion on "Universal" Background Checks...For or Against? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Relax Francis. I completely understand what you are saying. I'm not suggesting the FFL should absorb the cost. That's why I went on to say ...

View Poll Results: Universal Background Checks? Good idea? Yes or No

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  • YES...we need it to make sure that only the right people can buy guns

    31 17.42%
  • NO...bad idea, just another step to eventual confiscation

    121 67.98%
  • Not sure...havent figured it out yet.

    20 11.24%
  • Dont Care...I'm not a crook, so it dosen't affect me.

    6 3.37%
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Thread: "Universal" Background Checks...For or Against?

  1. #16
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    Array HotGuns's Avatar
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    Relax Francis. I completely understand what you are saying. I'm not suggesting the FFL should absorb the cost. That's why I went on to say the police station provided the government covers any cost associated
    .

    I'm quite relaxed actually. The police probably dont want any part of this. Most of them are already strapped for money and manpower. They would have to devote at least one officer or designee to cover just this alone, another responsibility that few would be willing to take one.

    I then explained how I would not register my guns and I also stated the government obviously does not have our best intentions at heart.
    They sure do not.

    I'm not an idiot, I realize what their ultimate goal is. All I'm saying is that I don't have a problem taking a background check in order to buy a firearm so long as there isn't an additional expense or registration.
    I have a problem with it. You are guilty until they prove you innocent. Its not suppose to be that way is it? Really, its a hassle. Did you try to buy a gun when Obama opened his mouth and used Sandyhook to his benefit? Some people were delayed for days. DAYS.
    Its never a problem when it happens to someone else, but when it happens to you its no fun.

    Obviously, the government would never set it up this way so I likely wouldn't support any such legislation
    So, you are saying that if it didn't cost you anything, you would give up a bit more freedom to feed an illusion? You just told me you aren't an idiot.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Guns are like sex and air...it's no big deal until YOU can't get any...
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  3. #18
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    I'd be ok with the government checking me out as long as the guns are not a part of the record.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bombthrower77 View Post
    I'd be ok with the government checking me out as long as the guns are not a part of the record.
    LOL...why else would they care to check you out? It's not about the guns, it's about the guns. They don't care about you (not you personally, but individuals in general...well documented that they don't care).
    bmcgilvray likes this.
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  5. #20
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    Re: "Universal" Background Checks...For or Against?

    Hey! What a great idea... Police station does NICS check...

    Thug Killer, and Drug Dealer go to cop shopto consummate a sale. Cops can get rid of half the fleet of squads.. The yeggs will come to them.

    The story just told may be true... The names were changed to protect the not-so-innocent
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  6. #21
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    This is how it.....continues. Not starts. It has already started.

    "Universal" Background Checks is the same thing as gun registration. All someone has to do (maybe the newly Appointed ATF guy?) is keep the records of the transactions, and you have de-facto gun registration. Every (legal) gun transaction, from whom to whom, serial number, date, addresses, social security numbers....

    This is a bad idea.

    Right now, if it anyone ever came knocking on your door asking about your "assault rifle"(s), you could say, "Oh I got short on cash and sold that a couple years back." That's right now.

    Now "Universal" Background Checks come into play.

    "Our records show that you purchased a rifle in 2013 - do you still have it?"
    Yes - kiss it goodbye
    No - you're going to jail - you didn't do the Mandatory Background Check.

    If someone is going to facilitate criminals getting guns - they will do it no matter what the laws are. This type of "legislation" only hurts good people.

    Austin
    Bark'n, BugDude and CrystalPistol like this.

  7. #22
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    No NO and did I say errrrr.... NO??? Its doesnt take an essay to explain this. Bad Guys dont/wont follow ANY rule reg or anything else when they want a gun. They dont need too, never will and nothing the government cops or anybody else can do is gonna change that. Ever. Even confiscation wouldnt change it.
    CrystalPistol likes this.

  8. #23
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    Not much to discuss...NO!
    Ghost1958 likes this.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoBigOrange View Post
    Here is what I would be ok with.

    Hotguns, lets say I wanted to buy a gun from you. Instead of you just selling it to me I would be ok with driving to my local FFL and passing a background check provided THERE ARE NO FEES TO ME.

    If the government wants to set it up so that I have to drive to my local PD and take a background test that is fine with me but I will not register my guns.

    Universal background checks are fine provided there is no cost to myself and no registration. I don't see the government caring about that though.
    But that's not what they want. They want the weapons registered, so they know who has them and where they are, plain and simple. You can also forget about the free background checks at the local PD, never happen. It will be extra $$ out of your pocket.
    CrystalPistol likes this.

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    You forgot and important question in your poll ... No...Violates the 2nd amendment
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  11. #26
    Member Array KoolBreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aus71383 View Post
    This is how it.....continues. Not starts. It has already started.

    "Universal" Background Checks is the same thing as gun registration. All someone has to do (maybe the newly Appointed ATF guy?) is keep the records of the transactions, and you have de-facto gun registration. Every (legal) gun transaction, from whom to whom, serial number, date, addresses, social security numbers....

    This is a bad idea.

    Right now, if it anyone ever came knocking on your door asking about your "assault rifle"(s), you could say, "Oh I got short on cash and sold that a couple years back." That's right now.

    Now "Universal" Background Checks come into play.

    "Our records show that you purchased a rifle in 2013 - do you still have it?"
    Yes - kiss it goodbye
    No - you're going to jail - you didn't do the Mandatory Background Check.

    If someone is going to facilitate criminals getting guns - they will do it no matter what the laws are. This type of "legislation" only hurts good people.

    Austin
    You know, officer, dangest thing happened. I took that gun with me deep sea fishing a while back and it feel overboard. Hate that!

  12. #27
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    First, I voted no because I'm not OK with mandating the check. It WILL lead to additional expenses for the seller or buyer. My last couple of private transactions in NC involved either a Pistol Purchase Permit (state law) or a CCP, both of which substitute for a background check in NC. My last FFL purchase took less than 15 minutes and no phone calls. Fill out the form, show the CCP, hand over the cash. In some ways NC has a background check in place, at least for handguns. The purchaser is required to have either a PPP or CCP to receive the handgun. A lot of guys prefer to see one of those for long guns too, just to ensure there are no issues that come up later.

    Which leads to a serious question. Could the NICS check be made available to the public at large? If the parties agree, it would be one way to ensure you are not selling to a prohibited person. Which is in itself against the law. I'm assuming we would get he same old, "we don't have enough resources, cost too much, we would be overwhelmed" excuses. But the reality is, if you are looking for a solution that involves letting people do a background check and keeping Govco out of it as much as possible. That's the only thing I can come up with. But it's probably not nearly enough control for those in DC and ATF.
    aus71383 likes this.
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  13. #28
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    Here's how the police sponsored background checks work. They are done at the county sheriff's office and they only accept apps on certain days of the week btwn certain hours. Once approved you have a limited number of days to obtain the approval or you have to start over. The available hours are when most people are at work. How do I know this? - MO just got rid of this system for handguns a few years ago.

    I would be tempted to accept a system where the buyer is the one responsible for obtaining a free permit by accessing the system via the net to show the seller. The system that checks against the database would have no write capability, subject to a 2x/yr audit. There would have to be clear mandates on what mental conditions get you put into the database and what/how many certified professionals it takes to be put on the list and all states are subject to compliance. However, IIRC, HotGuns pointed out a few months ago the current system is not supposed to save names more than 90 or so days, but the ATF showed up with a list over a year old.

    Yeah, I think I'll have to vote no on this one.

  14. #29
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    Absolutely against, someone eventually needs to draw a line in the sand. We already get one at the gun shop, now you want me to get one when I buy one from my friend? Or my grandpa gives me his old shotgun? I think I'd rather some of my guns stay off certain lists.
    CrystalPistol likes this.

  15. #30
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    A very qualified YES, for a few good reasons.

    1. All my firearms I bought from a FFL, which means there already is a record of the transactions and that I was the purchaser. If I sell those guns to anyone else, and they turn up at a crime scene, and the cops check the serial numbers, where does that leave me? We all know that we are responsible for our guns and every bullet that comes out of them. What is the difference between me selling a gun to someone without a background check and may be a criminal, and just leaving it loaded and visible in my unlocked car for someone to take and commit a crime with? I don't call that being responsible for your gun. I had to pass a background check to buy and no way in Helsinki am I going to transfer a weapon to anyone who didn't go through the same check. Because if he's buying from me and not a FFL I'll bet you a donut it's because he can't pass the background check.

    2. We armigers are quick to point out that it's crime and criminals who need to be controlled, not guns, and I agree. If all we end up with are certain individuals disqualified from owning firearms that would be a good thing, and it would take away the leverage that can be used to restrict firearms or restrict law-abiding people from having firearms. Politically, it becomes a much harder sell to say that you can't carry concealed in some place, or have a 30 round magazine after you've been cleared by the FBI. What are they going to say, that they know more about guns and criminals than the FBI? All that really matters to me is that at the end of the day, everybody who isn't a convicted felon gets to keep and bear arms, even if they had to undergo a background check, safety training or permitting earlier in the day. I think adopting a cooperative stance with government and law enforcement is the way to go.

    Now these are the qualifications: if we were to have any kind of universal gun registration or background checks it would have to be written right in that very law exactly how those records can be used, and not used. For example if we were to have a registry matching serial numbers with purchasers those records must be sealed, and not accessible to anyone until a gun turns up at a crime. Then we can see who the last purchaser was. If we have universal background checks exactly what we are checking for has to be spelled out in the law. Felony conviction, dishonorable discharge, outstanding warrants, out on bail, just got out of the nuthouse, but that's it. No further investigation, not interested in anyone's politics or religion and such. And what's the loss? Would anybody here want any person with one of those problems in the lane next to you at the range?

    Exactly how you would do a background check for a private sale is a good question. Doing it at the local PD is probably the best suggestion. They can run your ID in just a few minutes, check the serial number on the weapon and you're good to go. As a buyer I would feel a lot better doing it that way, because then I could be sure I wasn't getting stolen property or a weapon that was used in a crime that could end up making me a suspect. If I had to pay a few bucks too, no big deal, you pay more than that for a little box of ammo.

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