Do Americans Defend Themselves With Guns?

This is a discussion on Do Americans Defend Themselves With Guns? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Interesting info. You may have to answer two stupid questions to read the entire article: Gun control 101: Do Americans often use firearms in self-defense? ...

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Thread: Do Americans Defend Themselves With Guns?

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    Do Americans Defend Themselves With Guns?

    Interesting info. You may have to answer two stupid questions to read the entire article:
    Gun control 101: Do Americans often use firearms in self-defense? - CSMonitor.com
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    Member Array GunsAndViolince's Avatar
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    Ugh, I made noises while reading this thing that I didn't know I could make. I think my wife thought I was having heart/lung failure or something. I think it sounded something like...arg...agabrggggifffr....mrrrrwopiggg....ege ggg...gaaaaa!

    A survey of kids 12-17? Really? So, they're going to cite information from people who shouldn't have access to guns to make their point? And then throw in a court case that's ongoing and hasn't even remotely been decided and they're going to say things like "This can easily be seen..." Nobody should claim to see or be judging anything yet because not all the facts are available. I know their intent was to show that actions can be viewed differently depending on who you ask, but I thought the point of their article was to establish if Americans use guns for self defense or not. What the heck does anyone's OPINION on Zimmerman have to do with establishing that?

    Unless, of course, you're just trying to push and agenda or stir the pot.

    Ugh.

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    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    I read he article. Didn't have to answer any questions first. It basically says nothing of importance and was a complete waste of my time.
    firecrackerktm and sixgun like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokinFool View Post
    I read he article. Didn't have to answer any questions first. It basically says nothing of importance and was a complete waste of my time.
    Sorry about all that. This part is not relevant?:

    "The data that does exist varies widely. According to Bureau of Justice Statistics numbers, each year between 1987 and 1992 about 62,200 victims of violent crimes used guns to defend themselves, while another 20,000 annually used guns to protect property. According to the National Self-Defense Survey conducted by criminology professor Gary Kleck of Florida State University in 1993, Americans used guns 2.3 million times a year to defend themselves between 1988 and 1993."
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    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Sorry about all that. This part is not relevant?:

    "The data that does exist varies widely. According to Bureau of Justice Statistics numbers, each year between 1987 and 1992 about 62,200 victims of violent crimes used guns to defend themselves, while another 20,000 annually used guns to protect property. According to the National Self-Defense Survey conducted by criminology professor Gary Kleck of Florida State University in 1993, Americans used guns 2.3 million times a year to defend themselves between 1988 and 1993."
    I find most statistics to be irrelevent, especially those cited by a college professor. Frequently, the same statistics can be used to 'prove' both sides of the argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lchamp View Post
    I find most statistics to be irrelevent, especially those cited by a college professor. Frequently, the same statistics can be used to 'prove' both sides of the argument.
    Unfortunately many people do rely on statistics, including most law makers. So while you may find statistics irrelevent, a heck of a lot of people who matter do not.
    -Bark'n
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    Senior Member Array Tzadik's Avatar
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    The statistics will be skewed because many (if not most) uses of a firearm for defense are not recorded. Either no shots were fired, ( it's amazing how a BG will back down when a firearm is pointed at him) and or the incident never reported to the authorities.

    There should be no wonder of the difference in sources cited.
    Bark'n likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lchamp View Post
    I find most statistics to be irrelevent, especially those cited by a college professor. Frequently, the same statistics can be used to 'prove' both sides of the argument.
    In which case, you aren't the one this thread is directed at.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    Quote Originally Posted by lchamp View Post
    I find most statistics to be irrelevent, especially those cited by a college professor. Frequently, the same statistics can be used to 'prove' both sides of the argument.
    As a college professor, I'm not sure you understand statistics. Statistics are never designed to prove an argument. Most college professors know this, because most college professors have been trained in the production and use of statistics. We know where they bolster an argument and where they don't.

    In fact, we spend an awful lot of time working on finding out which statistics have meaning and which don't.

    Really, statistics are a lot like handgun ammunition. Without the right (mental) equipment, they're pretty much useless. Even with the right (mental) equipment, without common sense, they can be dangerous. And without training, it's very likely repeated use will result in bad things happening.

    So, kids....be responsible with your statistics, and if you see one lying around, leave it alone if you don't know what it's for.
    NCSoxFan and Bark'n like this.

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    Distinguished Member Array lchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbald1 View Post
    As a college professor, I'm not sure you understand statistics. Statistics are never designed to prove an argument. Most college professors know this, because most college professors have been trained in the production and use of statistics. We know where they bolster an argument and where they don't.
    That's why I put the word "prove" in quotes. Yes, I have training on statistics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Sorry about all that. This part is not relevant?:

    "The data that does exist varies widely. According to Bureau of Justice Statistics numbers, each year between 1987 and 1992 about 62,200 victims of violent crimes used guns to defend themselves, while another 20,000 annually used guns to protect property. According to the National Self-Defense Survey conducted by criminology professor Gary Kleck of Florida State University in 1993, Americans used guns 2.3 million times a year to defend themselves between 1988 and 1993."
    In what way is the 20 year old data relevant to today?
    Regards,
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1MoreGoodGuy View Post
    In what way is the 20 year old data relevant to today?
    Given that gun ownership in the US has increased dramatically since that time, it isn't a leap to conclude that people in large numbers continue to defend themselves with firearms each year.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokinFool View Post
    I read he article. Didn't have to answer any questions first. It basically says nothing of importance and was a complete waste of my time.
    +1 here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Given that gun ownership in the US has increased dramatically since that time, it isn't a leap to conclude that people in large numbers continue to defend themselves with firearms each year.
    Not saying that what you are saying might not be true but without data to back it up the "leap" is pure speculation.

    It's kind of like saying since automobile ownership in the US has increased dramatically since 1993, it isn't a leap to conclude that people in large numbers continue to have numerous days free from driving violations each year. Without any data to back it up, this is pure speculation...a lot can change in 20 years...The exact opposite could be true since we now have more advanced methods of catching violators (such as red light cameras and toll booth cameras) and more and more drivers are distracted by their cell phones texting while driving and are as a result violating more traffic rules on a more frequent basis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1MoreGoodGuy View Post
    Not saying that what you are saying might not be true but without data to back it up the "leap" is pure speculation.

    It's kind of like saying since automobile ownership in the US has increased dramatically since 1993, it isn't a leap to conclude that people in large numbers continue to have numerous days free from driving violations each year. Without any data to back it up, this is pure speculation...a lot can change in 20 years...The exact opposite could be true since we now have more advanced methods of catching violators (such as red light cameras and toll booth cameras) and more and more drivers are distracted by their cell phones texting while driving and are as a result violating more traffic rules on a more frequent basis.
    If you don't like the info presented, don't use it. To varying degrees, it is all speculation.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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