Who needs a gun in a church?

Who needs a gun in a church?

This is a discussion on Who needs a gun in a church? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Article from VA-Alert Newsletter: 26. Who needs a gun in a church? ************************************************** ** How about if a madman intent on murder comes in? Thanks ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array jowgafist's Avatar
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    Who needs a gun in a church?

    Article from VA-Alert Newsletter:

    26. Who needs a gun in a church?
    ************************************************** **

    How about if a madman intent on murder comes in? Thanks to Bruce
    Bremer for the link:

    Man ignites fires inside crowded church on Lancaster Drive NE
    Wednesday night; 3 injured

    He is arrested after churchgoers tackle him, put out flames

    DAN BENDER
    Statesman Journal

    October 26, 2006

    A man entered the Peoples Church on Lancaster Drive during a
    Wednesday evening worship service and used a burning liquid to set
    fires in the crowded sanctuary, officials and witnesses said.

    One woman, identified by a church pastor as Arlene Anderson,
    reportedly was taken to the hospital by her husband for medical
    attention to burns on her back and neck. Another worshipper sustained
    burns on her clothing but was not taken to a hospital.

    "We were just singing and praying, and the next thing you know, two
    people were on fire," said Lissa Gordon, 25, of Salem.

    Witnesses said the liquid, possibly gasoline, was igniting as it came
    out of a can that the man was holding. It was not clear how the man
    ignited the liquid.

    Deputy Kevin Rau, a spokesman for the Marion County Sheriff's Office,
    said one man was in custody. He was not immediately identified.

    Rau said the man arrived at the church at 4500 Lancaster Drive NE in
    a taxi cab and threatened the cab driver with a knife. Rau said the
    Salem-Keizer Yellow cab driver and the man wrestled for the knife.
    During the struggle, the cab driver suffered a minor injury to his
    neck.

    Sam Miller, an assistant to the pastor who was attending the 7 p.m.
    service, said the church's sanctuary was packed with several hundred
    people when the man entered about 7:15 p.m. The man reportedly came
    through a front door at the church and into the sanctuary through a
    side door.

    Miller, who also is a police chaplain, said the man then began
    throwing the burning liquid onto pews, people and carpeting.

    "He just poured this gasoline, or whatever it was, and as it was
    coming out of the can he ignited it. He kind of sprayed it on people"

    Worshippers said the incident happened quickly.

    "When I jumped up and turned around, there were already a dozen
    places on fire by the time I saw it," said Bill Gallaher, a church
    staff member.

    Miller said church members tackled the man and were able to get him
    out of the church. Other churchgoers were able to put out the flames
    using fire extinguishers or by beating down the flames with clothing
    or even their hands.

    "They were putting it out any way they could," Miller said. "One lady
    did the stop, drop and roll method."

    The fire was out before crews from Marion County Fire District One
    arrived. Miller estimated that six pews and some carpeting were
    damaged, but he could not estimate what amount of damage the smoke
    caused.

    "There was a good amount of excitement," Miller said. "People were in
    a rush. People were expressing concern for one another."

    Miller said the man spoke incoherently during the incident. He
    described the man as OK physically after he was tackled but
    emotionally disoriented.

    "We're going to move forward," Miller said. "The best thing for him
    is to find Jesus Christ as his Savior."

    About 400 to 500 people were in the building at the time, Gallaher
    said. Children were in a separate building at the time of the
    incident, he said.

    A Salem-Keizer Yellow Cab remained in the church's parking lot,
    cordoned off by police tape. The taxi was reportedly still in gear
    when the suspect threatened the driver, and the car rolled to the
    side of the parking lot.

    Many churchgoers inside the sanctuary were being put on local transit
    buses to be transported to a Marion County facility to be interviewed
    by officials, Rau said. People leaving the scene in cars were asked
    to stay for questioning.

    A Marion County Mobile Command center was set up in front of the
    church's main entrance. At least five fire trucks from Salem Fire and
    Marion County remained on the scene around 9 p.m.

    Salem police also responded to the scene, although the church is
    outside Salem city limits.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    who needs a gun in church? The people at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Ft. Worth (or maybe Dallas...) back in '99 or 2000 might have found one usefull. IIRC, one or two people were killed when a gunman walked in and opened fire.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

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    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    Me....

    no actually, the ushers, the deacons, the pastor, and the little old lady who always sits in the third row.

    there have been enough instances of people coming into churches and commiting violent crimes there, that the church ceases to be a "safe sanctuary" for anyone.

    just a thought.....


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    Quote Originally Posted by MR D View Post
    Me....

    no actually, the ushers, the deacons, the pastor, and the little old lady who always sits in the third row.

    there have been enough instances of people coming into churches and commiting violent crimes there, that the church ceases to be a "safe sanctuary" for anyone.

    just a thought.....

    me too; but, it's on base so can't

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoTex View Post
    who needs a gun in church? The people at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Ft. Worth (or maybe Dallas...) back in '99 or 2000 might have found one usefull. IIRC, one or two people were killed when a gunman walked in and opened fire.
    Thanks, I'll second this one... It was actually September 15, 1999 and you are correct, it is in Ft. Worth. Seven people were killed and seven injured not including the shooter (Larry Ashbrook).

  6. #6
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    The fact is many states make churches off limits in their base legislation. All this does is create "massacre safe" zones. There was a rash (3-4) incidences where some guy goes to his ex wife/girl friends church to "take care of business". Why. Well state law assured him there would be no one there to interfere; I do not believe it was mere coincidence they all just decided to do it in a church.

    When I was married the first time back in Indiana (CCW since 1934) the preacher knew I had a CCW and usually carried. There were a couple ladies that left abusive relationships at about the same time in the congregation and he came up to me one day after the service and asked if I would mind carrying during services “just incase”. He got a funny look on his face when I told him I always did.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array cmidkiff's Avatar
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    Name some places where it would be impossible for an idiot to walk in and start killing people at random.

    Hmmmm... I must be tired, I can't think of any right now.

    Anyway, those are the places where I don't feel that I 'need' a firearm. You know, places like banks (no, not there...), schools (nope, not there), amusement parks (oops, not there either...), national parks (not!), airplanes (big no)... Ok, I really can't think of any right now.

    'The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed'

    Church isn't on that list either.
    Liberty is an inherently offensive lifestyle. Living in a free society guarantees that each one of us will see our most cherished principles and beliefs questioned and in some cases mocked. It's worth it.

  8. #8
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    Mr. Kimber...

    attends church with me regularly...
    If, for some reason, he doesn't feel like going...then Mr. Glock goes along with me...

    Stay alert...stay safe!

    ret
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    NRA Life Member[/B]

  9. #9
    Member Array falkon's Avatar
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    Everywhere I go So will my Glock. When I see a NO GUN sign I turn around and go somewhere else. I use the drive through at the bank.
    There are 10 types of people in the world:
    Those who understand binary, and those that don't.

  10. #10
    Member Array bones's Avatar
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    I'm in church, I'm carrying. Just like everywhere else I go.
    The only exceptions forced upon me in this State of New Hampshire is Federal Property or State, County or Local Courthouses.
    Otherwise, I'm carrying. Period.
    "There is no such thing as too much ammo. Unless you're swimming!"

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array hsuCowboy98's Avatar
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KenpoTex View Post
    who needs a gun in church? The people at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Ft. Worth (or maybe Dallas...) back in '99 or 2000 might have found one usefull. IIRC, one or two people were killed when a gunman walked in and opened fire.

    Thanks, I'll second this one... It was actually September 15, 1999 and you are correct, it is in Ft. Worth. Seven people were killed and seven injured not including the shooter (Larry Ashbrook).


    Ill third that. I lost a childhood friend that day in that church.
    Fear No Evil.

  12. #12
    Member Array Ranger's Avatar
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    I know that the title question is rhetorical, but the very question is part of the problem. Who needs the right of Free Assembly? Who needs the right of no unlawful search and seizure? Or the right of refusal of self-incrimination?

    We don't NEED to carry in most of the places (overwhelmingly) that any of us carry. But that's not the point.

    Preaching to the choir is my favorite.

    OT - I'm so glad I found this forum.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array tegemu's Avatar
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    Not only is a gun needed in the church but you have to make the trip to and from the church with often some other in route travel and/or stops. If you need a gun at other times, this is an 'Other Time." If you are uncomfortable about carrying in church, you could leave your gun in your car while you are in church but church parking lots are prime targets for car burglars.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence in their behalf. - George Orwell

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    And the church shooting in Milwaukee, WI not too long ago.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
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    Hey, Peter packed and was with Jesus Himself. He pulled the sword and wacked the guard's ear off when they came for Jesus.
    For God, Family and Country!

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