Terminal Ballistics Observations- .38 & 10mm

[randytulsa2]

I have had occasion to finish off immobilized deer a few times in my life. Until today I had always performed the chore with a .38. It always did the job.

I shot one with the muzzle loader this morning (spine shot at 40 yards) and he was still quite conscious when I walked up on him.

I packed my Witness 10mm with me this morning and that is what I used to deliver the coup de grace this time.

All I can say is "Wow."

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to get shot with a .38. Not one little bit. But I never want a 10mm even shot TOWARD me....

The .38 (110-gr. JHP- various brands) always penetrated one side of the skull and lodged in the animal's head. Perfectly effective for the intended purpose.

But that 10mm (175-grain Winchester Silvertip) penetrated both sides and took away a chunk of head with it.

Same distance (arm's length), approximately same size animal and similar points of impact.

I have found yet another use for my undervalued and under appreciated 10mm Witness. A darn fine gun.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[P95Carry]

Randy - .38 and 10mm is IMO apples and oranges!

Your results are not surprising really, tho pretty impressive

[artz]

Randy, sounds like you should be shootin' the other way 'round. The main huntin' gun is the 10mm, followed by the coup de grace with the .38.
I think you'll find that you won't need the .38, especially when used with a good handload. Everybody keeps talkin' about the 10, heck I'm startin' to miss mine.

[dr_cmg]

Everybody keeps talkin' about the 10, heck I'm startin' to miss mine.

Too bad. It's staying in Alabama. I just ordered a new Eric Larsen holster for it.

[artz]

I have made up my mind. If I buy another 10, it will be a glock 20.

[dr_cmg]

I have made up my mind. If I buy another 10, it will be a glock 20.

I can't believe that you said that Arthur. A Block, I mean Glock? Seriously, good weapon if it fits your hand. The few I have tried did not fit my hand. Other pistols with almost rectangular grips don't either so it's not Glock. The only double stack I have been able to fire well was the Bersa UC9. The grips are more rounded. The one thing the pistols in my sig line have in common is the single stack mag.

[artz]

Thats about the only thing in a decent price range for a 10. I don't care for the Witness version, although shooting it might change my mind. Even the smiths' grip was just a smidgen too large for my taste.
Out in Cali, I was seriously talking to a guy about converting my GP100 to a 5 shot 10mm. Kinda wished I did now.
Whats a guy to do ?

[dr_cmg]

I keep hoping to see SIG come out with a 10mm. That would be awesome. The SIG reliability with the 10mm round. That would be sweet.

[srfl]

Agreed Randy...the EAA Witness 10mm are both an underrated gun and round. I (foolishly) traded mine off (full-sized blue steel framed version) for a HK USP. I "replaced" it with a Wonderfinished, steel framed Witness in .38 Super. A nice, equally underrated round, but not a 10mm.

[Bud White]

Again its not that surprising the 10 is loaded decent though not to orginal specs and more it is more a apple to grapes comparsion

[artz]

One of the reasons on NOT getting the witness is they will not stand up to hot loads. I have talked to folks who have owned them and they are fine for G.P., but on getting the full potential of the 10, you need to handload. The Glock will hold up.

[srfl]

Artz....I don't think that's true; you need to first replace the stock recoil spring, because the general consensus is that the Witness 10mm is undersprung. The gun should come with a 24 Lbs (at least) recoil spring. I replaced my stock spring with a Wolff extra power 24 Lbs spring. My gun also had a Sprinco Recoil Reducer. That plus the new recoil spring made for a gun that recoiled less than any of my .45 ACPs. I have zero doubt that the gun would have lasted through cases of Mike McNett's (Double Tap Ammunition) hottest 10mm loads.

Are on 10mm Talk? Others there will echo my sentiments here.

[randytulsa2]

I've heard that some people have bad luck with Witnesses in 10mm. I haven't, though. I have had bad luck with Remington 870 Expresses (but not Wingmasters, fwiw), but some people have had flat-out great experiences with them- - and I'm happy for them.

I concur about the need to change out the recoil spring....it comes with a 14-pounder, which probably just doesn't cut it with most 10mm loads. I put an 18-pounder in- I had (and still have) no intention of running Double Tap stuff through it (though I hear it's great ammo). The Winchester Silvertip is the hottest load with wide commerical availability and I think it's fine for my applications.

If I was going to shoot a lot of real hot stuff through it, i.,e., try to get the most out of its true potential, I'd probably get a 24-pound recoil spring, or just up and get a Glock (no "tweaking" necessary for top-notch reliability).

I think a Witness is also a gun that you need to know a little bit about before you go get one, though- - you ought to know about things like that recoil spring and to beware really hot loads. I added a grip sleeve to mine and it made all the difference in the world as to my ability to hold onto the doggoned thing. If you don't mind the tinkering, and you don't get too crazy with it, it's a lot of fun.

I still think it's underrated and heckuva a deal for the money.

[Bud White]

For the really hot loads like Double tap i would go with a glock that is what i have in 10mm though i would love a delta

I just really dont think the pistols are built up to handle the 10mm in its first loaded forum except the Glock