New gun owner in a pickle!!!! Please help!!
This is a discussion on New gun owner in a pickle!!!! Please help!! within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I just bought my first firearm less than a week ago. I've had private lessons and plan on getting a CCW for my Kahr P9. ...
April 25th, 2013 08:26 PM
New gun owner in a pickle!!!! Please help!!
I just bought my first firearm less than a week ago. I've had private lessons and plan on getting a CCW for my Kahr P9. I work on private property my family owns. I'm a farmer and carry the weapon for protection, because I'm the only woman out there and it's miles away from anything.
Recently I encountered a dog fight. Three dogs were attacking one. Was I right in firing a round five feet away from myself into the ground? There were no other people around and the ground is guaranteed to not have anything that a bullet could ricochet off of as it is an orchard.
This may sound like a dumb question and while I think my actions were within reason, my aunt/ boss now doesn't want me carrying the weapon.
Any opinions and/or resources would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
April 25th, 2013 08:31 PM
If you are that far out, and on private property, you did nothing illegal. Of course the property owners can limit what you can and can't do.
But, what if those were feral dogs and decided to attack you? Happens more often than people think. I believe you are smart to have a little something handy to protect yourself.
" Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight"
April 25th, 2013 08:33 PM
In that scenario if it did the trick I don't have any problem with your action.
And I am pretty sure that there is one dog that was mighty glad that you did what you did.
Tell your Aunt that there was a good chance that when those three wild dogs finished killing that one poor dog they could easily have turned their attack on you.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
April 25th, 2013 08:34 PM
Try and sit them down and calmly/politely/rationally/respectfully explain to them what happened and why you intend to keep on carrying.
April 25th, 2013 08:37 PM
Warning shots are generally not considered a good thing, but that's with respect to interacting with humans. In this case it seems you were attempting to distract the dogs at no risk to people or property. Given the relatively sterile environment, I'd say you acted reasonably. Did the gunshot have the desired effect?
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April 25th, 2013 08:44 PM
You didn't do anything illegal, but you did something unsafe and IMO unwise. Firing a round at the ground in close proximity to you is very dangerous. Luckily, it turned out fine this time, but I strongly discourage ever doing that again. That goes in the safe category as firing a 'warning shot'. If you shoot something/someone, it is to incapacitate immediately or kill, not to scare or injure, you CCW class will (or better) teach you that.
April 25th, 2013 08:45 PM
Why were you concerned about breaking up a dog fight? Was it the family dog you had responsibility for that was being attacked by three others? Or was it just four dogs mixing it up?
Originally Posted by enegrete
If not your dog that you had responsibility over, I'd say (without knowing your state's or your county/community ordinances pertaining to use of deadly force against dogs) that you probably didn't have much justification to do that. But that's just a guess.
Had it been your family's dog, though, then it becomes essentially a family member where you've got far more leeway in making the determination to protect it, if its life is clearly threatened.
From the perspective of a peer who'd be judging your reasonableness, IMO it would not be reasonable except if your own dog or one over which you had clear responsibility. Merely having a desire to breaking up a dog fight, IMO, isn't sufficient justification. But that's just me.
April 25th, 2013 08:49 PM
You did fine...I would have done the same thing.
Being out in the boonies, and all alone, you need to be armed.
I'm sure that if your aunt were out there with you...away from the car, and three dogs headed your way, she'd be glad that you were armed.
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
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April 25th, 2013 08:58 PM
Congrats on taking private lessons. You are already a step ahead of 80% of firearm owners in doing so. With that said, and not knowing any of the detailed facts, I.E. how dangerous or how big the dogs are, I would say that was the right thing to do. Especially if you are far away out in a rural area.
As for making your aunt ok with you carrying. Ask her if she is ok with you getting raped and murdered in the middle of no where, while you're 100% defenseless. Being armed is the equivalent of playing it safe, especially if the police have longer response times where you're at. Stay alert and stay armed!
April 25th, 2013 09:01 PM
Was the dog being attacked your aunt's? Ask her how she would feel if it was and you did nothing?
Suppose it was you being attacked. Ask how she would feel if you were unable to protect yourself.
If she has a question about tactics and weapon selection you can have a reasonable discussion.
If she wants you out there on your own then you need to think about whether you want that job.
April 25th, 2013 09:13 PM
The three dogs attacking were dogs I was responsible for (they r my aunts) and the dog being attacked was my supervisors.
April 25th, 2013 09:25 PM
You won't find anyone on this forum who would tell you not to carry - even those who supposedly are watching us wouldn't be that obvious. You have a right to protect yourself, period. Talking with family can be difficult, but if you are reasonable your aunt should care enough about you to want you to be safe.
As for the shot, my thought is that you were on private property, you cleared your background and you took action to protect animals you were responsible for - you did good. I obviously don't know the topography, but I might shoot a little further away from myself. Regardless, it was an encounter that turned out OK.
Sleep well knowing you did the right thing. And, welcome to the forum!
Last edited by RickyD; April 25th, 2013 at 09:28 PM.
April 25th, 2013 09:32 PM
I think your actions were reasonable, though keep in mind that warning shots arent necessarily embraced as a good idea.
From what you wrote, I don't have a problem with what you did,as a farmer myself, I've saved injury and death among dogs because my rare warning shot broke up their frenzy ratio on some unfortunate animal. It usually gets their attention, and they scatter.
Be very careful and by no means make this a habit. Keep up with the lessons too.
I have respect for the landowner, she is the boss, but I think I'm more bothered by the aunt.
April 25th, 2013 09:38 PM
^ Ditto, on ppk's remarks.
Given they were dogs you had responsibility for, and given it was on property where you had responsibilities at the time, using that method in a responsible manner to break up such a fight and stop the killing of one of the dogs seems reasonable.
Though, if it were not your own dogs or you were just out and about along a public road, path or other property, I wouldn't advise using deadly force to break up a "junkyard dog" fight. Bad juju, given how most folks will react to such claims of "necessity." Translation: I would also be careful of making this a habit. Or, if you prefer, avoid the tendency of viewing all problems as nails in need of your hammer.
April 25th, 2013 09:42 PM
As long as you put no one in danger, you are fine. You used a tool and got the desired result.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato
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