Round count

This is a discussion on Round count within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Why is everyone today so obsessed with round count when buying or selling a gun? I have Smith and Wesson revolvers that have untold thousands ...

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Thread: Round count

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    Round count

    Why is everyone today so obsessed with round count when buying or selling a gun? I have Smith and Wesson revolvers that have untold thousands of rounds through them and they shoot as good today as they did 40 years ago, they are just smoother. My last duty gun before I retired had 15,000 rounds through it and it still worked fine. An Ar 15 fired semi automatic may need an extractor @ 5000 rounds.

    I think round count would be important for a military armorer who is maintaining a fleet of weapons. so that he can put the rifles on a maintenance schedule, but outside of that context I dunno. Even that schedule would be more time based due to how the budget works ie; every year change extractors, every two years replace the bolt, every three years replace the barrel.

    Unless someone is a competitive shooter I just do not see the concern. I am more worried about buying a gun that a kitchen gunsmith has screwed with than one with honest rounds downrange. I do not think I would want to buy one of Robby Leatham's old guns. In the Army I was using a WWII 1911 that had hundreds of thousands of rounds through it, worked over at the arsenal and it was like new.

    The first time I was selling a gun and the prospective buyer asked me round count I was like........ Huh, I have no idea.......

    Most civilian users will never wear out any small parts on any gun they own.
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    I'm not obsessed. I stopped at ten rounds because I ran out of fingers. I guess some folks would pay extra for a "rounds counter" built into their firearms. I suppose it's a necessity for those makes that require a new recoil spring every X number of rounds. Seems like the more expensive the gun, the lower the X number.
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    The only time I would be concerned is if it has had so many rounds through the weapon is now a smoothbore that was not originally a shotgun.
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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    I guess I'd only be concerned about it if looking at a gun that's underbuilt, which I'd argue may apply to some subcompacts in full-power calibers. It's hard to make a pocket gun that will take the same beating that a larger gun will. But even in that case, I agree, it doesn't seem like a realistic concern, unless you're looking at a range rental gun or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    Why is everyone today so obsessed with round count when buying or selling a gun? I have Smith and Wesson revolvers that have untold thousands of rounds through them and they shoot as good today as they did 40 years ago, they are just smoother. My last duty gun before I retired had 15,000 rounds through it and it still worked fine. An Ar 15 fired semi automatic may need an extractor @ 5000 rounds.

    I think round count would be important for a military armorer who is maintaining a fleet of weapons. so that he can put the rifles on a maintenance schedule, but outside of that context I dunno. Even that schedule would be more time based due to how the budget works ie; every year change extractors, every two years replace the bolt, every three years replace the barrel.

    Unless someone is a competitive shooter I just do not see the concern. I am more worried about buying a gun that a kitchen gunsmith has screwed with than one with honest rounds downrange. I do not think I would want to buy one of Robby Leatham's old guns. In the Army I was using a WWII 1911 that had hundreds of thousands of rounds through it, worked over at the arsenal and it was like new.

    The first time I was selling a gun and the prospective buyer asked me round count I was like........ Huh, I have no idea.......

    Most civilian users will never wear out any small parts on any gun they own.
    It seems to me the answer is similar to why we are concerned with mileage on a used car. Guns are mechanical devices. They are engineered with fairly tight tolerances and are prone to wear, breakage, and failure. Even the highest end, most lovingly maintained machines have a finite service life. I know some guns have recommended break in period. That pretty much demonstrates how the moving parts wear based on use. There's no reason to believe that wear ends after a 200 round break in period.

    Maybe there is too much emphasis put on round count, but to say it is not relevant glosses over the fact that guns can and do wear out through use. Much like I'd rather buy a car with 70k miles that's been well cared for vs a car with 20k that's been driven hard, I'd rather buy a higher round gun that's been well treated and well cleaned vs a low round one that's been treated like an ugly step-cousin.

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    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    To that point has anyone actually worn out a gun? I mean a gun is a machine, it surely has a life span.

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    I estimate at best what my round count is. I've experienced the same thing with the higher round count. The more rounds I put through them the smoother they run.
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    I do it to satisfy my own curiosity and to better know when I may need to replace springs on my autos.

    When I have bought used revolvers though I could care less about the round count. It's pretty hard to shoot an SP101 to death.
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    Because, brother, its round count.....
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    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    You cannot compare a used gun to a used car.

    On the issue of subcompacts, the way most people talk they would never shoot one enough to wear one out because it hurts......

    Different parts on a gun wear at different rates. The only gun I wore out was a Remington 742 in 30-06 made in the late 1960's or early 70's. The locking lugs were worn smooth, I was trying to figure out why it quit grouping. Most guns you can replace barrels, bushings, springs they are wear items.

    Wear items I keep spares, when it fails I replace it, it may be 5000 rounds it may be 10,000 rounds, it may never fail. There is a Glock 17 at FLETC with somewhere around 1.5 million rounds through it.
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  12. #11
    Member Array thebucketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    You cannot compare a used gun to a used car.

    On the issue of subcompacts, the way most people talk they would never shoot one enough to wear one out because it hurts......

    Different parts on a gun wear at different rates. The only gun I wore out was a Remington 742 in 30-06 made in the late 1960's or early 70's. The locking lugs were worn smooth, I was trying to figure out why it quit grouping. Most guns you can replace barrels, bushings, springs they are wear items.

    Wear items I keep spares, when it fails I replace it, it may be 5000 rounds it may be 10,000 rounds, it may never fail. There is a Glock 17 at FLETC with somewhere around 1.5 million rounds through it.
    Granted, the analogy isn't perfect, but it still applies. Guns are mechanical devices subject to wear, breakage, and failures. As you describe above, you can replace parts on guns, as you can on any machine. The fact that parts wear at different rates is largely irrelevant beyond the fact that they do wear. Would you rather have a gun with 10K rounds and original parts or a gun with 20K and a new barrel and springs? That's a judgement call, but the round count (if known) certainly matters when you are making a decision about whether to purchase a used firearm.

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    Rohrbaugh Firearms & Boberg XR9 | Best 9mm Pocket Pistol On Earth Both Hi-end (and pricey) Pocket pistols both have round limits on them. (Much like replacing an engine after 250,000 miles)

  14. #13
    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    Why is everyone today so obsessed with round count when buying or selling a gun?

    Most civilian users will never wear out any small parts on any gun they own.
    I disagree. It's recommended that the guide rod spring in a mag-fed handgun be replaced every 5,000 rounds, or when the slide will no longer return to battery when the slide is drawn back about half an inch, and released gently. I've seen this happen with a number of guns, and 5,000 rounds isn't really that many if you keep your guns more than a couple of years. I own quite a few firearms that are older than I am (42.) Some from Viet Nam and Korean war era. Typically what needs to be replaced most often are springs.
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    5,000 rounds?... shooot... thats just geting started. I own a S&W victory WWII, and a S&W 1917 from WWI. Both shoot tight, time up good, and and still retain much of the finish... Yep I bet you could wear a gun out... eventually.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    I disagree. It's recommended that the guide rod spring in a mag-fed handgun be replaced every 5,000 rounds, or when the slide will no longer return to battery when the slide is drawn back about half an inch, and released gently.
    I did say "most". I see a lot of guns for sale that have very little use. Many here are shooters so we tend to think every gun owner is a shooter.

    Would you rather have a gun with 10K rounds and original parts or a gun with 20K and a new barrel and springs?
    That depends, is it my gun or a gun I am familiar with? If it was re-barreled who did the work? There is no absolute answer.

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    This is an idea of where I am going. More than round count, but, you get the idea.
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