What to (not) say when you call 911? Lessons from Zimmerman Trial

What to (not) say when you call 911? Lessons from Zimmerman Trial

This is a discussion on What to (not) say when you call 911? Lessons from Zimmerman Trial within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; ZIMMERMAN TRIAL HIGHLIGHTS THAT PROTECTION FROM SELF INCRIMINATION DOES NOT EXTEND TO YOUR CALL TO THE POLICE. Just keep the thread on: What to (not) ...

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    What to (not) say when you call 911? Lessons from Zimmerman Trial

    ZIMMERMAN TRIAL HIGHLIGHTS THAT PROTECTION FROM SELF INCRIMINATION DOES NOT EXTEND TO YOUR CALL TO THE POLICE.

    Just keep the thread on:
    What to (not) say when you call 911?

    and it can stay up. If it morphs into a general Zimmerman trial post it will get locked.
    QKS

    There is something that attorneys are well aware of; what you say in a 911 or any call, to the police, can and will be used against you. The current Zimmerman trail is a good example of this. He is innocent until proven guilty but his call in to report a suspicious person is being manipulated against him. This is a good lesson for all gun owners to keep in mind. If you have to shoot someone you must be careful how you report it. You look suspicious if you do not report it right away and reporting it when you are not in your best mental state can work against you.

    So what is a man to do? Read more here: Zimmerman trial highlights that protection from self incrimination does not extend to your call to the police. | The Old Gunhand

    Here some info on What to (not) say when you call 911?

    The first rule for staying out of jail and/or losing everything you own due to defensive gun use is shut up.

    • Be the FIRST to call 911 (so that your name gets written in the "victim" box).
    • Describe only the CURRENT STATUS of the situation
    • Do not say anything about what YOU did.
    • Do not say anything about HOW things got to the current state.
    • Do not get caught up in answering their "thirty questions".
    • Make the call as short as possible DO NOT succumb to "death by dispatcher".
    • Everything you say to a 911 operator can and will be used against you in a court of law.
    • You are under no legal obligation to remain in contact with the operator.
    • Either hang up or put the phone down as soon as possible.

    Here's What To Tell The Dispatcher
    • I am at this location......
    • My name is......
    • I was attacked...
    • There is a suspect down please send an officer and medical personal.
    • I am wearing <description>• When the police arrive, I'll step back and my gun will be holstered.
    • Ask to be identified to police officers as the victim.
    ---------------------------------------
    Massad Ayoob’s Five-Point Post Shooting Checklist
    1. Tell responding officers “I’m the victim; he is the perpetrator.”
    2. Point out pertinent evidence.
    3. Point out any witnesses who saw what happened.
    4. If there is any hint that you are a suspect, say “Officer, you will have my full cooperation after I have counsel here"

    Instead of going into detail when speaking with responding officers on the scene, briefly explaining what the attacker did to precipitate your self-defense actions plus pointing out evidence that could be lost or overlooked and identifying witnesses to the event.

    Next, state that you would like the counsel of an attorney before you give a formal statement, a written statement or even a tape-recorded statement. Once you’ve said that, keeping your mouth shut the best approach.

    Don't give law enforcement and the bad guy's lawyer the ammunition they need to turn you from an armed self-defender into a victim of the legal system.

    ----------------------------------------
    Self-Defense Tip: After a Defensive Gun Use, Sleep on It

    In Meatloaf’s Paradise by the Dashboard Light, the hormone-crazed singer’s girlfriend won’t let him score a home run until and unless he promises to love her forever. His initial response: “Let me sleep on it. Baby baby let me sleep on it. Let me sleep on it, I’ll give you my answer in the morning.”

    When it comes to providing your version of events to the police after a defensive gun use (DGU), same answer. Do NOT submit to a police interview until at least 24 hours later. Say “My life was in danger.” Then shut up, contact your lawyer and put some time between the incident and your official statement or interview. How important is this? Let’s check in with our friends at the Chicago Police Department via an email blast from the Force Science Institute . . .

    Late last year the IPRA ( Independent Police Review Authority) asserted that under the city’s contract with the FOP (Fraternal Order of Police) it had the right to compel an involved officer to give an official recorded interview within 2 hours of a shooting, regardless of the officer’s level of stress or sleep deprivation. FOP president Mike Shields characterized this as a “uniquely incorrect position” and pushed the matter to arbitration.

    Recently arbitrator Peter Feuille ruled that unless an officer wants to talk sooner the IPRA must wait at least 24 hours after a shooting before its investigators can conduct a detailed interview and that the questioning can occur only between 0600 and 1800. If a shooting occurred at 7 pm, for example, at least 35 hours would then elapse before the interview is required .

    FOP attorney Paul Geiger told Force Science News: “This gives the officer a chance to rest through 1 sleep cycle, collect himself, and consult with an attorney during reasonable hours in order to give an accurate account of what happened.

    “We are not against an officer talking to the IPRA under Garrity protection. We just want him to be able to give an informed, thoughtful statement. Given how hectic and emotional a shooting situation is, we think the rest period is important.”

    Fair’s fair, right? If the cop’s union rep can secure a 24-hour recuperation period for his fraternal brothers and sisters after an Officer Involved Shooting (OIS), your lawyer should do everything in their power to get the same “courtesy” for you, should you experience a You Involved Shooting.

    Which raises another key, related point: after a DGU, the police are not your friend. Even outside of the political hellhole of Chicago, where the police keep the right to bear arms to themselves, the cops are a world unto themselves. Even though you pay for it, it’s not your world.

    As far as the legal system is concerned, the cops are the good guys. Always. You? You’re a suspect in a shooting.
    Last edited by bmcgilvray; June 25th, 2013 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Language Work-Arounds
    Second Amendment America's Original Homeland Security!

    "Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion...in private self-defense" - John Adams

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson


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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    IBTL
    I am sorry but sometimes i get stuck on the Abreviations .
    Member of the NRA
    {A}RMS discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them
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    Not afraid to live & Not afraid to die .

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    In Before The Lock
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    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    ...other than the fact that we don't do Z threads...

    ...and you've ignored rule #4...

    ...this is a pretty informative thread...
    tdave likes this.

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    Ty g 4 t info
    Member of the NRA
    {A}RMS discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them
    1775 Thomas Paine
    Not afraid to live & Not afraid to die .

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Perhaps since the trial has begun, it's time to review.

    Because, political problems with the ramifications aside, this sort of situation is a classic example of the risks of carrying deadly weapons, the risks of defending ourselves, the very likely risks of prosecution and vilification we all face in any such situation. And it's going to be a hallmark example that's well-publicized and basically understood by tens of millions of people, before all is said and done. Lots of benefits to discussion, here, presuming we can all keep the awful race-card crap off the table (which the laywers are sure to dredge up).
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Perhaps since the trial has begun, it's time to review.
    We should have one thread, and one thread only for Z. If the discussion is on thre trial itslef then It might be OK and civil.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Actually I don't think this is a Zimmerman thread, this is more a "CYA" thread. It is always a good reminder to remember that what you are saying on 911 is being taped and can be used as evidence against you.
    niks, msgt/ret, nti06 and 2 others like this.

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    Good points about what you say or don't say to dispatchers... it will be used , for the good or the bad. I know in a couple of non-gun related things, I just told the dispatcher... "I'll talk about all of that to the police officer once he arrives".

    One question they have started asking during any call here (yes, they know by your name if you give it that you have a cc license)...... I called on a minor theft to report it....... and they will ask : did this involve any guns and is anyone injured ?
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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    Just using the info. in the post you can never see that spelled out in detail too much . Everyone needs to read and digest it all .
    Member of the NRA
    {A}RMS discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them
    1775 Thomas Paine
    Not afraid to live & Not afraid to die .

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Actually I don't think this is a Zimmerman thread, this is more a "CYA" thread. It is always a good reminder to remember that what you are saying on 911 is being taped and can be used as evidence against you.
    That's exactly what this is.

    Everyone needs to appreciate the potential ramifications of carrying, of defending, of how prosecutions and vilification can go, the damaging aspects across our entire lives because of such situations.

    As the old adage reminds us: every bullet comes with a lawyer attached.

    And as I'm fond of saying: while it's important to be right, it can be vitally important to be seen to be in the right. In this case, it seems this is going to be the one hook that might "hang" him.
    BadgerJ likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by welder516 View Post
    I am sorry but sometimes i get stuck on the Abreviations .
    TLDR..
    welder516 likes this.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis

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    If I recall correctly, Zimmerman called the police before the shooting, did he not?

    I also am skeptical of rehearsed bullet points....bullet points do not coalesce into a silver bullet.

    Here's some examples:

    Here's What To Tell The Dispatcher
    • I am at this location......
    • My name is......
    • I was attacked... {Witness says you were the attacker - are you lying?}
    • There is a suspect down please send an officer and medical personal.{Suspect? Why is this dude using legal terms after a shoot? Is his blood that cold and is he that calculating? Was this planned?}
    • I am wearing <description>
    • When the police arrive, I'll step back and my gun will be holstered.{So you're not stepping back before they arrive? Are you pressing an attack? Why not holster your gun now? Are you hoping to get another chance to "finish the perp off?"}
    • Ask to be identified to police officers as the victim.{Sounds like you are already thinking about a court case? Why must you be identified as the victim? Why would you care? That seems odd...}
    ---------------------------------------
    Massad Ayoob’s Five-Point Post Shooting Checklist
    1. Tell responding officers “I’m the victim; he is the perpetrator.” {Again, legal terms}
    2. Point out pertinent evidence.{What is pertinent and what is not? If you don't point something out, are you hiding something? Why did you try to lead the police away from the "real" evidence?}
    3. Point out any witnesses who saw what happened.{You point out witnesses A and B, but not C. C says you didn't have to shoot the guy. Isn't that convenient that you overlooked him?}
    4. If there is any hint that you are a suspect, say “Officer, you will have my full cooperation after I have counsel here"{Hint: When the Police arrive, you are the suspect.}

    These are my thoughts. Mr. Ayoob has a heck of a lot more experience than me, so no offense if you think I'm off the reservation.

    But I am quite sure that if I am ever involved in a shoot and live, my mind and heart will be racing, and I'll likely blather, especially when there are skilled cops around who know how to get people to talk.

    "Officer, I was afraid for my life, and I want to speak to my attorney."

    Better yet: "Officer, I want to speak to my attorney."

    I'm willing to spend a post-shoot weekend in jail and go free than a post-shoot month free and then the rest of my life in jail.
    -PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

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    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    If I recall correctly, Zimmerman called the police before the shooting, did he not?

    I also am skeptical of rehearsed bullet points....bullet points do not coalesce into a silver bullet.

    Here's some examples:

    Here's What To Tell The Dispatcher
    • I am at this location......
    • My name is......
    • I was attacked... {Witness says you were the attacker - are you lying?}
    • There is a suspect down please send an officer and medical personal.{Suspect? Why is this dude using legal terms after a shoot? Is his blood that cold and is he that calculating? Was this planned?}
    • I am wearing <description>
    • When the police arrive, I'll step back and my gun will be holstered.{So you're not stepping back before they arrive? Are you pressing an attack? Why not holster your gun now? Are you hoping to get another chance to "finish the perp off?"}
    • Ask to be identified to police officers as the victim.{Sounds like you are already thinking about a court case? Why must you be identified as the victim? Why would you care? That seems odd...}
    ---------------------------------------
    Massad Ayoob’s Five-Point Post Shooting Checklist
    1. Tell responding officers “I’m the victim; he is the perpetrator.” {Again, legal terms}
    2. Point out pertinent evidence.{What is pertinent and what is not? If you don't point something out, are you hiding something? Why did you try to lead the police away from the "real" evidence?}
    3. Point out any witnesses who saw what happened.{You point out witnesses A and B, but not C. C says you didn't have to shoot the guy. Isn't that convenient that you overlooked him?}
    4. If there is any hint that you are a suspect, say “Officer, you will have my full cooperation after I have counsel here"{Hint: When the Police arrive, you are the suspect.}

    These are my thoughts. Mr. Ayoob has a heck of a lot more experience than me, so no offense if you think I'm off the reservation.

    But I am quite sure that if I am ever involved in a shoot and live, my mind and heart will be racing, and I'll likely blather, especially when there are skilled cops around who know how to get people to talk.

    "Officer, I was afraid for my life, and I want to speak to my attorney."

    Better yet: "Officer, I want to speak to my attorney."

    I'm willing to spend a post-shoot weekend in jail and go free than a post-shoot month free and then the rest of my life in jail.
    These are all good points.

    I don't think the items the OP pointed out are in the SD bible, but just a mindset of how to act if put in this position. Or in short, "Don't be your own worst enemy".
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

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