Something struck me when I read this:

Something struck me when I read this:

This is a discussion on Something struck me when I read this: within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Despite the Constitution aspect - we do not promote illegal carry - which perhaps regretably is usually concerning (often dumb) laws that apply even if ...

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Thread: Something struck me when I read this:

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Something struck me when I read this:

    Despite the Constitution aspect - we do not promote illegal carry - which perhaps regretably is usually concerning (often dumb) laws that apply even if we may not wish to agree with them. However, obey we must.
    I always hear this from the boards and other places. Yet I begain to think where we would be if our forefathers had the internet or walked around town saying the exact same words.

    I know that the main answer is "Well, we can vote and they couldn't" but it is increaseling(sp) evident that this option really isn't. UnConstitutional laws are still being passed and upheld.

    Now, I understand that alot of the "we don't ****** (insert the don't here)" is mainly a CYA aspect.

    But I still wonder how history would have been different if such as above were the statements issued.

    Wayne

    *Not a flame, insult, or anything like that. I just wanted to bring this up for discussion, not to insult/flame, etc.. I hope that no one takes it in such a manner.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Bud , unfortunately the 1st ammendment does not apply fully to the 2nd , Just like you cannot yell fire in a theater , you cannot fully express even your opinion of your rights under the second , its called sedation .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  3. #3
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    Wayne - my comment was and is primarily for CC and CYA.

    Maybe I should have said ''Obey we should'' - which leaves things open to the conscience and will of the individual.

    Whatever folks decide to do of their own volition is fine but the point has to be that on a public forum we have to be squeeky clean - whether we like it or not - apart that is from what folks might write that just could come back and bite them, or even Bumper
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Often wondered the same thing Wayne.
    The Gunsite Blog
    ITFT / Quick Kill Review
    "It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Chris, I understand that, that's why I mentioned that it's a CYA thing. But, it's not only on the boards, but also when you sometimes speak face to face with folks.

    I know what I want to say but don't know how to express it so I can turn this into a good discussion without putting anyone or thing in danger of being misunderstood by "those that may watch".

    I had read the linked post to that other board where the head guy was contacted by the SS about what someone posted on his board.

    In one way, it's really shameful that we have to "walk on glass" when speaking either in real life or upon a board. Not that I would advocate someone breaking the law, even if it is unconstitutional, but it seems that one has to "be careful" due to "big brother is watching you".

    Oh, as for:

    Just like you cannot yell fire in a theater
    You can very well yell such in a theater. It isn't the words that will get you into trouble but the actions of others in reaction to your words, i.e. the resulting stampede.

    Yet if you were to tell everyone beforehand that such was going to to be yelled, or even if they weren't, and no reaction resulted (no one got hurt, moved, stampeded, etc..) then no law has been broken. So, it isn't what is said but the reaction that may result.

    I know that I'm not making too much sense as to what I am trying to say but I hope between these rambling lines you can see what I'm trying to say.

    Wayne

  6. #6
    Member Array denverd0n's Avatar
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    Civil disobedience, as a way to effect change, is a fine thing. It is a very personal decision, though. It is something you have to decide for yourself. As such, I don't think it is a good idea to recommend it to others--let them come to the conclusion themselves. What's more, there are people in certain positions (the owners of this bulletin board, for instance) who would open themselves to HUGE liability if they started recommending it to others.

    If you feel the urge to practice a little civil disobedience, I'm the last one who is going to stand in your way. But I can certainly understand why most of the time, in most situations, the best advice is to obey the law.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    Whether or not if I obey all laws is a personal choice I make. I would not admit to or recomend that any one break any law on a public forum. We all can rest assured that If one is ever arrested or charged with a crime the prosecuting attorney will use any and all that you say against you if the judge will allow it. That is their Job.

    If you ever plan on running for a political office it is best to be squeeky clean, there will allways be someone trying to dig up dirt on you. What one says now can come back and haunt you later in life.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array .45acp's Avatar
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    Hey Wayne
    I'm so happy that I'm not the only one that has a problem expressing my concerns or opininons in a way that all can understand.
    PC has become the term for Political Cowardice.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    ... you cannot fully express even your opinion of your rights under the second , its called sedation .
    Sedation. Right! Sedition would be grousing about the State's uber-control to the degree the State would get uncomfortable. Sedation is way beyond that ... and many have reached that state. Absolutely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
    In one way, it's really shameful that we have to "walk on glass" when speaking either in real life or upon a board.
    I'm actually of the opinion that it's shameful in all ways that matter. Call a spade a spade. If it walks, talks, smells like a duck, it's very likely to be a duck. A is A. It's a much simpler way to treat living.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; November 23rd, 2006 at 10:44 AM. Reason: spelling challenged early bird
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    True, I wouldn't be the one to advocate what another should or shouldn't do and I wouldn't want it to be placed on a public forum such as this.

    Just that it "struck me". Many things "strike me" which could explain why I am the way I am .

    But, in a way it does make one think that if we had to have a reunion of the 1700's, well, it wouldn't turn out the way it did then.

    Oh well, just the ramblings of an "old man" (not really old, just feel that way).

    Oh, Happy Thanksgiving all .

    Wayne

  11. #11
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    Array QKShooter's Avatar
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    Important Note:
    Wayne ~ My post (below) is not directed specifically toward you.
    It is an explanation to ALL MEMBERS who seem to always have "unanswered lingering questions" about why they sometimes get edited here ~ and/or why their threads or other threads or posts occasionally get deleted.

    Everyone has the right to open up their own blog on the Internet and express themselves all they want to...on any topic or subject.

    You can post porno pics there ~ Call For A Revolution! and type the word F_ _ K.....2,000 times in a row if you want to.

    You can preach about all of the various religions that you despise and all of the ethnic groups that you hate and all of the stupid laws (Firearm & Otherwise) that you break every single day.

    You can yell out to the world about how you beat your wife and abuse your kids and accidentally killed poor Grandma and have her buried under the Bar~B~Que pit in your backyard.

    Go for it if that floats your boat.

    Concerning Constitutional Rights & the 2nd Amendment:
    Feel Free to "fight the good fight" and you can do whatever you want to do concerning carrying a firearm while breaking any "Dumb Laws" that you perceive to be totally stupid and overly oppressive. Talk about it all you want on your own site.

    Then if you get caught...you can take it all the way up to the Supreme Court and "juke out your innocence" on Constitutional grounds. That's fine and dandy.

    There are just certain things that you just can't do or say here.

    That would be because this is not a Public Forum or a free personal soapbox.

    It is a privately owned and "paid for" web site dedicated to legal firearm carry.

    CombatCarry.com a site dedicated to LEGAL firearm carry.

    Nothing is stopping anybody from coming up with their own funds and opening up their own web site titled: IllegalCarry.com and then anybody that wants to go there...can go there...and talk about all of the Local, State, & Federal gun laws that they violate.
    And then let the chips fall where they may fall.

    Nobody is paying dues to join CombatCarry.com

    You do not have "Individual RIGHTS" here.

    This is not a Democracy here.

    It is a benevolent dictatorship.

    The rules are what the rules are ~~~ HERE on CombatCarry.

    Pay the money ~ Buy your own web server and you get to make up your own set of rules.

    This is America ~ You can make your own set of rules when you pay for your own Internet site.

    It is important for all members to know that CombatCarry.com is not America.
    This is a privately owned home called CombatCarry.com that happens to be located in America. There is a huge difference between the two.

    This is Bumper's privately owned house ~ you follow his "House" rules when you are in his home.

    Out of respect ~ You don't pee on his carpet when you are a GUEST in his home.

    If a member does not like it ~ then they can leave.

    It's as simple as that.

    Nobody is being held prisoner here against their will.

    OK my Rant is over.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    QK,

    Please, don't get me wrong, I am not saying what I did or bring it up to express concerns over the way you or anyone decides to run their house.

    It was just something that I was thinking about. How maybe with self restraint from saying such things may work for harm and not for good, I just have a really bad way of trying to express myself when it comes to intense thinking and communication.

    And in no way am I trying to create a problem or to insult anyone, just trying to think about how such things could impact future endeavers if they ever needed to be taken (and I hope/pray they never do).

    I fear that my not able to express what I was thinking in a better manner has created a problem when I didn't mean it to do so. My fault, wasn't able to express what I was thinking.

    If you could, shut this one down unless you or someone can help me express what I am trying to say in a better way. Normally I can articulate my thoughts but on this one, just didn't know exactly how to do it and I fear that it did what I didn't want it to do.

    Wayne

  13. #13
    Assistant Administrator
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    I do think the thread has served its purpose
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  14. #14
    DC Founder
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    This is what's so cool about owning the place; you always have the ability to get the last word....

    I understand what you you were trying to say, Wayne and understand, in general, your concerns. What you are not allowed to say here compared to what I would be okay with discussing if you were to actually visit me in my home, are vastly different. I'm sure that when our founding rathers were planning to break the grasp of the British and establish the country they didn't talk quite so freely about it in circles that would include the enemy. I'm also pretty sure when they were gathering support for the revolution that they spoke differently when they were in a barn, a tavern, a home (with a wife present), a church or to a newspaper man. I'm sure they spoke in all of those places many times. We can safely assume that the language was much rougher and the rhetoric stronger in the tavern/barn (or other private places) than it where there were women and kids. Honestly, our enforcement of language and content here is probably closer to what the founding fathers would enforce than what some of our members are used to. Do you think they would present information that would hurt their cause? Do you think any of them would admit, to the whole world, that they had committed a crime? Would they tell an off color joke in a church or in front of someone's wife and kids? Others may think differently, but I don't think they would. They knew there were places were certain speech was simply not right.

    Members sometimes accuse us of censorship. QK is correct when he said "when you're in my house, it's my rules", but the rules are really meant more for those that don't know what is proper to say in certain places. For anyone that still has any morals and ethics left, in a world where it doesn't seem to matter much anymore, know that it's wrong to go to church on Sunday morning and start cussing. You know it's wrong to start telling dirty jokes in mixed company where you don't know many of the people. Most would not be so foolish to walk into a police station and start telling a police officer all of the laws you have broken. Anyone here ever taken their bottle of Jack Daniels to church? If so, why? If not, why not?

    Come to my house (the real one in Arizona) and you and I can set in the backyard, drink beer, burp, fart, cuss, tell jokes, rant about illegal aliens, middle easterners, politicians and voice our opinion on every social problem in the books. There are, though, still things that may get you thrown out of my house, just as there are topics in yours that would get me thrown out.

    We are not "censoring" anyone as it is often referred to, we are establishing guidelines for those that don't seem to understand that there are men, women, kids, preachers, Democrats & Republicans, christians & athiests, police officers & criminals, blacks & mexicans, Americans & Canadians, able-bodied & handicapped here, as members. We have established guidelines that try very hard to not alienate anyone that comes here to participate. We are a "mixed bag", all here for, generally, the same reason. None of the categories above, that make up our membership, has any more status here than another. When you step in the door here, you're just like everyone else until you prove otherwise and get shown the exit; spammers and trolls get the exit pointed out pretty quickly in most cases.

    All that being said, do you think it's right to walk in our door and start cussing, telling dirty jokes, admitting to breaking laws? Some of these will reflect badly on you, and left unchecked, some would reflect badly on us. Don't say anything here that you wouldn't say at home infront of your entire family, your minister, your boss or the world, because they are all out there. And they're (potentially) watching your every word.....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

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