.22 vs .25

.22 vs .25

This is a discussion on .22 vs .25 within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So I have heard all these stories of how the .22LR beats the .25 ACP and I was a little skeptical. I have several almost ...

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Thread: .22 vs .25

  1. #1
    New Member Array GreasyStool's Avatar
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    .22 vs .25

    So I have heard all these stories of how the .22LR beats the .25 ACP and I was a little skeptical. I have several almost identical pistols in both .22 and .25. Why not give them a try. I have a Wilkinson Arms Sherry in .22, it has a 2" barrel and I have two Colt 1908's that both have 2" barrels. Lets see which is better. I reload .25 too. I use 1.5Grs Unique with a 50 gr FMJ and a cast 52 gr Lead FP. I use the same in 1.5Grs of Unique with the little 35Gr JHP XTP from HORNADY. As a control I shot two other .22's. A Bersa 23 with a 3.5" Barrel and an older Stainless Taurus 94 9 shot revolver with a 3" Barrel just to see what would happen with another inch or so of barrel length would do. I also shot both the Sherry and the Colts into a phone book to see which will penetrate more. All shooting was at 10 yards. The Sherry will penetrate 302 pages and the .25 FMJ will do 484 pages. Now many more pages were torn in front of where the round stopped on both the .22 and .25. The .25 Lead FP went almost all the way through the phone book. It went 484 pages. The .25 did better than the .22 out of the same size pistols hands down. The cast lead FP's were sized to .253 when I got them and they didn't group well. I resized some to .251 and we will see what happens next time. I have had the Sherry over 25 years, the Colts are from not so nice one (top) is from 1917-1918 and the other (bottom) is from 1928-29. Both shoot the FMJ's or JHP's POA just fine.







    Wilkinson Arms Sherry .22 2" Barrel
    Winchester 40 Gr Power Points
    815 fps
    717
    723
    765
    750
    823
    783
    Average: 768fps


    Wilkinson Arms Sherry .22 2" Barrel 10 yds.
    CCI Stingers
    876 fps
    859
    952
    827
    924
    897
    983
    917

    Wilkinson Arms Sherry .22 2" Barrel
    CCI 40 Gr Mini-Mags
    795 fps
    777
    857
    769
    774
    813
    781

    Colt 1908 .25 ACP 2" Barrel
    Colt 1908 50 Gr FMJ. 10 yds.
    1.5 grs Unique 50 Gr FMJ (Factory Blazer .25 50gr FMJ 710 fps)
    782 fps
    832
    740
    814
    700
    809
    Average: 792 fps



    Colt 1908 1.5 grs Unique 35Gr Hornady XTP JHP.
    802 fps
    856
    871
    794
    792
    858
    873


    Colt 1908 1.5 grs Unique 52 gr Cast Lead FP
    907 fps
    894
    918
    910
    871
    920
    900


    Bersa Model 23 3.5" Barrel
    Winchester 40 Gr HV LR
    982 fps
    977
    960
    950
    1002
    863
    974

    Taurus Model 94, 22 cal, stainless 9 shot 3" Barrel
    975 fps
    976
    993
    1020
    1018
    984
    980
    1020
    1006







  2. #2
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    Sure, but how are they at 100 yards on steel turkeys?

    Nice set of pockets guns, by the way.
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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    I can't help but to notice your 1908 is in a bit better condition than mine. I really like the looks of that Sherry.
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    VIP Member Array TWO GUNS's Avatar
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    I have always liked the 25 more than the 22. Thanks for the report.
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    Have Fun and Shoot Straight !!

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    Great job on this thread and the PICS are great also.

    Well, the ages old argument that favored the .25 over .22 rimfire ammo was that any center fire cartridge will have more reliability over a rimfire cartridge.
    Not sure how accurate that statement is anymore with high quality modern manufacture .22 LR but, I always loved the classic and vintage little .25s

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array CIBMike's Avatar
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    Defensive pistols aside .22lr is way more useful than .25 ACP.
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    Thank you for your well-done independent evaluation of the .22 Long Rifle/.25 ACP debate. Through posts like these, Defensive Carry Forum meets the personal self-defense world's "burning questions of the day" head on.

    Love the little cast lead flat nosed .25 ACP bullets! A .25 ACP that was used with handloads featuring those bullets would absolutely "run off and hide from" any factory .25 ACP load made, and any .22 Long Rifle load, for self-defense applications. Well ... "running off and hiding" might should be reserved for truly effective cartridges like the .357 Magnum revolver or the .45 ACP but you "get my drift." At any rate, those cast bullet handloads would come closer to making the .25 ACP "be all that it can be" for self-defense than anything else offered for the round.

    Love seeing your pistolas! Thanks for providing the really good photos. Colt 1908 .25s are my favorite of the breed.

    Your tests seem to validate my own notions about the debate. Your velocity data sure looks in line with the barrel lengths of your test handguns. Apparently it's the stubby barrel that guts .22 Long Rifle performance in vest pocket automatics. It doesn't take much additional barrel length for the .22 Long Rifle cartridge to outshine the .25 ACP in performance. Additional barrel length isn't what we have available in tiny automatics and there's no point in comparing apples to oranges to claim the .22 Long Rifle is the more powerful cartridge. It can be certain that the .25 ACP could also "gen" up more velocity if it was fired from longer barrels. There are no common "long snouted" .25 ACPs to test this theory.

    So, the .25 ACP indisputably wins the "relative power" debate though neither is earth-shaking at all in the effectiveness department.

    I leave the .25s for fun and frolic and tote something more effective.

    Here's a thread that I once stuck up here that agrees with your findings.
    Cartridge Discussion: .25 ACP
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    Very good report and good thread. Thanks.

    I don't have much to add other than I believe those are the same bankruptcy guys that are on the front of my phone book!
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    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Thank you for your well-done independent evaluation of the .22 Long Rifle/.25 ACP debate. Through posts like these, Defensive Carry Forum meets the personal self-defense world's "burning questions of the day" head on.

    Love the little cast lead flat nosed .25 ACP bullets! A .25 ACP that was used with handloads featuring those bullets would absolutely "run off and hide from" any factory .25 ACP load made, and any .22 Long Rifle load, for self-defense applications. Well ... "running off and hiding" might should be reserved for truly effective cartridges like the .357 Magnum revolver or the .45 ACP but you "get my drift." At any rate, those cast bullet handloads would come closer to making the .25 ACP "be all that it can be" for self-defense than anything else offered for the round.

    Love seeing your pistolas! Thanks for providing the really good photos. Colt 1908 .25s are my favorite of the breed.

    Your tests seem to validate my own notions about the debate. Your velocity data sure looks in line with the barrel lengths of your test handguns. Apparently it's the stubby barrel that guts .22 Long Rifle performance in vest pocket automatics. It doesn't take much additional barrel length for the .22 Long Rifle cartridge to outshine the .25 ACP in performance. Additional barrel length isn't what we have available in tiny automatics and there's no point in comparing apples to oranges to claim the .22 Long Rifle is the more powerful cartridge. It can be certain that the .25 ACP could also "gen" up more velocity if it was fired from longer barrels. There are no common "long snouted" .25 ACPs to test this theory.

    So, the .25 ACP indisputably wins the "relative power" debate though neither is earth-shaking at all in the effectiveness department.

    I leave the .25s for fun and frolic and tote something more effective.

    Here's a thread that I once stuck up here that agrees with your findings.
    Cartridge Discussion: .25 ACP
    On the lines of "No long snouted 25s in common use", My grandfather used a 25acp rifle as a squirrel gun. He had it made to make use of the better bullets. That was before 22 mag could be had in anything but lead round nose. Current ammo trends have much better bullets being put on 22 mag. Out of a rifle barrel the 25 was a potent round. DR
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    "On the lines of "No long snouted 25s in common use", My grandfather used a 25acp rifle as a squirrel gun"

    Now is that cool, or what?! Wonder if he had a Steven's single shot .25 rimfire re-chambered?

    That'd be off-beat enough to "float my boat." Great fun for handloading and playing with.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

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    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    "On the lines of "No long snouted 25s in common use", My grandfather used a 25acp rifle as a squirrel gun"

    Now is that cool, or what?! Wonder if he had a Steven's single shot .25 rimfire re-chambered?

    That'd be off-beat enough to "float my boat." Great fun for handloading and playing with.
    Close! #4 Remington Rolling Block. DR
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    Oh yeah! That'd be a great choice.

    Oh dear! I just felt the twinges of "scheming." We have a friendly and adept gunsmith mere blocks away from me here.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

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    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    The reason why people poo-poo the .25 is because its ineffective at center mass shooting, like the even worse .22. However, either will kill anyone DRT if you shoot them in the brain pan at close range, making them fully deadly with that small caveat. With those groups this should not be a problem for you or something to be overly concerned about. Simply adjust you aim about a foot higher and no attacker will live to brag.
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    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    If I needed something that small, I'd go .22 HMR, psersonally. I absolutely love that round. It's amazingly powerful for it's size.
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    RKM
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    Those little .25ACP Colt's are a hoot to shoot. Not sure I'd carry it as a primary given my options available, but if it's all I had or could have, I'd feel fine with it.

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