Texas DPS going away from .357 Sig

This is a discussion on Texas DPS going away from .357 Sig within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Saw a news story last evening where the Texas DPS was to phase out their .357 Sigs in 2014. Going back to 9mm. The reason ...

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Thread: Texas DPS going away from .357 Sig

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    Texas DPS going away from .357 Sig

    Saw a news story last evening where the Texas DPS was to phase out their .357 Sigs in 2014. Going back to 9mm. The reason given was more capacity. Any thoughts on this? Are other depts. going this route also? Seems like a step backward to me. I like the 9mm rounds and I do carry my SR9c sometimes. Don't feel under gunned. But I would think precision of aim with the first few rounds would trump mag. capacity.
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    VIP Member Array WrongRecroom's Avatar
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    It was mention in the Law foroum that lack of ammo was the reason

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    9mm is significantly cheaper, not as loud, doesn't have as much flash, is easier to find, carries more rounds in the same size gun, and is only some 200 fps slower in its +p offerings than 357 SIG. Sounds to me like they're properly utilizing taxpayer money, if only in a relatively small way in this instance.

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    Senior Member Array medmunds21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrongRecroom View Post
    It was mention in the Law foroum that lack of ammo was the reason
    I've read & heard of the same reason, "lack of ammo/shortage."
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    Sad.
    I wonder if they had little influence with their ammo vendor in this matter.
    Ok, I HAD an M&P 9c and it held 12.
    Currently have a Compact .357sig holding TWO less rounds.

    Very insignificant IMHO, for the trade off in performance.
    Now if they are going to utilize +P+, then maybe, but then I would think ammo still may be a bit more scarce than regular 9mm or just +P, so the point would be moot.
    Especially if they are using a FS pistol which may only hold 3 rounds less per mag.
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    I cannot see the rationalization between 200fps. When you compare the fire power and the fact they are that close together. If Texas DPS was going from say a .45 cal. to a 9mm that would be significant.
    " Life is tough and it gets tougher if your stupid." John Wayne.

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    Distinguished Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    It's more than just caliber, new pistols:
    Texas DPS switching service pistols for troopers | khou.com Houston
    I did not see where they were dissatisfied with the performance of the 357 Sig; they may have gotten the best deal by going with 9mm S&W pistols.
    $ > performance


    I like the 357 Sig caliber, even though it is a magnumized 9mm, the extra KE is advantageous IMO.
    No internal lock or magazine disconnect on my pistols!

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    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    9mm is significantly cheaper, not as loud, doesn't have as much flash, is easier to find, carries more rounds in the same size gun, and is only some 200 fps slower in its +p offerings than 357 SIG. Sounds to me like they're properly utilizing taxpayer money, if only in a relatively small way in this instance.
    In a full-sized pistol, I might make the same choices (as a department) for the same reasons. Sounds reasonable. There also aren't a lot of choices on the market for .357 SIG alternative platforms. Not many makers support the platform, certainly by comparison to 9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP.
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    It sounds like it is an economical decision and not a tactical decision.
    I carry a gun, because a Cop is too heavy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    9mm is significantly cheaper, not as loud, doesn't have as much flash, is easier to find, carries more rounds in the same size gun, and is only some 200 fps slower in its +p offerings than 357 SIG. Sounds to me like they're properly utilizing taxpayer money, if only in a relatively small way in this instance.
    No offense but this rationale is like comparing a .38 Special to a .357 magnum. Which would be my first choice? Take a guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
    It sounds like it is an economical decision and not a tactical decision.
    I think you are dead on.

    I am personally sad to see this. It seems that this whole 9mm vs. .357 Sig vs. 40 S&W vs. 10mm vs. .45 ACP conversation has been debated for the last 25-30 years. I remember when most cops wanted 9mm's for the added "firepower" until they began finding that even with the newer ammo the one shot torso shots were not happening. Many went to .45 ACP then the 40 S&W came and it was the rage. What I have observed over the years is that most cops are not "gunners" and only shoot when they have to qualify. Some even look at their weapon as something they are not going to have to use anyway. Administrators are not normally "gunners" either and are for the most part just "bean counters" having no concept what really works on the street or what weapons give their officers confidence to do their job.

    In 1904 the Thompson-LaGarde ballistic tests were done and came to the conclusion to recommend the U.S Military adopt the .45 ACP cartridge. Both Cooper and Hatcher have supported these findings. Ironically the FBI tests after the 1986 tragedy came up with similar findings as to caliber and velocity. Recently a major police department near where I live switched from 40 S&W back to 9mm. Their reason was due to some of the smaller stature officers having trouble handling the recoil and lower scores. After seeing a photo in the newspaper showing a group of officers on the firing line it is obvious that proper training is lacking. BTW I have known many of these officers personally over the years. They would have had a terrible time back when .357 magnums with full power ammo for qualification was used. IMO for a duty carry weapon I would only feel comfortable using the .357 magnum, .44 Spl., & .41 magnum in revolvers and the 357 Sig, .40 S&W and the .45 ACP in semi-auto. Like I said just my opinion.
    Last edited by OlCop; December 25th, 2013 at 11:04 PM.
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    Sorry had to repost to finish as I got timed out.



    [QUOTE=OlCop;3035389]No offense but this rationale is like comparing a .38 Special to a .357 magnum. Which would be my first choice? Take a guess.



    I think you are dead on.

    I am personally sad to see this. It seems that this whole 9mm vs. .357 Sig vs. 40 S&W vs. 10mm vs. .45 ACP conversation has been debated for the last 25-30 years. I remember when most cops wanted 9mm's for the added "firepower" until they began finding that even with the newer ammo the one shot torso shots were not happening. Many went to .45 ACP then the 40 S&W came and it was the rage. What I have observed over the years is that most cops are not "gunners" and only shoot when they have to qualify. Some even look at their weapon as something they are not going to have to use anyway. Administrators are not normally "gunners" either and are for the most part just "bean counters" having no concept what really works on the street or what weapons give their officers confidence to do their job.

    In 1904 the Thompson-LaGarde ballistic tests were done and came to the conclusion to recommend the U.S Military adopt the .45 ACP cartridge. Both Cooper and Hatcher have supported these findings. Ironically the FBI tests after the 1986 tragedy came up with similar findings as to caliber and velocity. Recently a major police department near where I live switched from 40 S&W back to 9mm. Their reason was due to some of the smaller stature officers having trouble handling the recoil and lower scores. After seeing a photo in the newspaper showing a group of officers on the firing line it is obvious that proper training is lacking. BTW I have known many of these officers personally over the years. They would have had a terrible time back when .357 magnums with full power ammo for qualification was used. IMO for a duty carry weapon I would only feel comfortable using the .357 magnum, .44 Spl., & .41 magnum in revolvers and the 357 Sig, .40 S&W and the .45 ACP in semi-auto. Like I said just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    9mm is significantly cheaper, not as loud, doesn't have as much flash, is easier to find, carries more rounds in the same size gun, and is only some 200 fps slower in its +p offerings than 357 SIG. Sounds to me like they're properly utilizing taxpayer money, if only in a relatively small way in this instance.
    "Only" 200 FPS slower? That comes to about 25% less muzzle energy. That makes a big difference in barrier penetration, and, I would argue, also in stopping power.
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    I read the following comment and got a chuckle...yup I'm from Texas
    "what the Sig weighed too much and had too much recoil and had too much knock down power. maybe they should get some Kel-Tec PMR-30s that way they get to carry 31 rounds of .22 mag and it won't weigh so much with minimal recoil and they can carry 1000 rounds of ammo in their purses. they just don't make troopers like they used to i guess. heaven forbid if they had to carry a 2.5# 1911 like the real officers used to or an S&W wheel gun, oh the humanities !!!!!!!!!!!"
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    cops by me carry 357 SIG,gold dots im pretty sure

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    I talked to a couple of law enforcement friends in a couple different counties down here in south Florida and both told me they were switching from .40 back to 9mm. I'm not sure if its all of them down here but I was surprised to hear it because most leo's if not all carry .40 as a service weapon.

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