Bizarre Stories: "The guy should have gone down..."

Bizarre Stories: "The guy should have gone down..."

This is a discussion on Bizarre Stories: "The guy should have gone down..." within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; 'm at a phase where I'm reading a lot on ammo ballistics and choice (my beloved .45 auto, .357 SIG, the newer and more effective ...

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Thread: Bizarre Stories: "The guy should have gone down..."

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    Member Array 9mm Lassiter's Avatar
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    Post Bizarre Stories: "The guy should have gone down..."

    'm at a phase where I'm reading a lot on ammo ballistics and choice (my beloved .45 auto, .357 SIG, the newer and more effective 9mms, and the seemingly fading .40 S&W, all of which I shoot except the .357). Anyway, as I consider which rounds will stop a threat fastest, I thought it'd be interesting and helpful to share stories of people who survived insane situations. I think stories like these help one realize to truly focus on shot placement and to continue shooting until the threat is eliminated. Just with videos from my agency, I've seen a one shot stop rip through the spinal chord and take the subject down instantly (guy trying to knife a cop), but it doesn't always happen that way. Even a cursory read of accounts in war zones will amaze a reader about how many shots one can survive from an M4. Anyway, here's my story:

    Large scale car chase involving multiple agencies including ours along the interstate. Eventually subject started into oncoming traffic, creating a deadly treat to the motoring public. At one point he jumped out of his vehicle and carjacked an SUV. He subsequently carjacked at least one patrol car after LEOs got out on foot to chase him. Eventually he exited the patrol car and ran towards one of the troopers. The trooper pulled out his Glock 21 .45 auto and shot the man in the head within approximately 10 feet. He didn't slow down. If I recall, the round went in his mouth. Eventually a deputy body slammed the guy and knocked him down. He still got up three more times after that. I asked about drugs in his system, and the guy showing the video wasn't sure what was found.

    Truly, not a bad shot to hit someone in the head. Still, best not to assume anything...
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    Ask yourself the origion of the M 1911. You will find the truth. The standard issue .38 did not kill or even stop the Philps hopped up and prepared for combat by tying off appendages with vines to counter gun shot wounds................ History.

    I ask you................ what load of .45 ACP was this Peace Officer loaded with..............? It was not what you and I would be using, because he was probably restricted by department and union rules................ I want to know?
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    Member Array 9mm Lassiter's Avatar
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    It was a JHP of some sort. They currently use ranger bonded. And this agency doesn't really skimp on ammo quality. They aren't restricted by department or union rules either. They test out different stuff and then make decisions on what they think is best in addition to the usual politics I suppose that every agency has in choosing gun/ammo brands and calibers (lest we get too idealistic here).
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    VIP Member Array Phaedrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANGLICO View Post
    Ask yourself the origion of the M 1911. You will find the truth. The standard issue .38 did not kill or even stop the Philps hopped up and prepared for combat by tying off appendages with vines to counter gun shot wounds................ History.
    True, but the part you missed is that the .45 Colt didn't work much better. Even the .30-40 Krag reportedly wasn't a reliable stopper against the Moro warriors. There couldn't have been much use of the 1911 in that conflict since it was completely over by 1913 but it's hard to imagine the .45 ACP doing much better than the .45 Colt.
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    Not sure I agree with the statement "seemingly fading .40" It's still pretty prevelant around here.

    Shot placement is also pretty important... not sure I call a shot to the mouth, a head shot, where did it exit, out cheek? if you were lucky might have hit spinal chord but that would have been a small chance.

    I'm guessing this is gonna turn into another caliber war.
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    No caliber wars. Please! Life is too short. Surely we can evolve.
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    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    A colleague of mine was shot five times at arms-length range. Two in the chest, one in the shoulder, one in the upper arm, and one in the face. He spent about three days in the hospital and was back at work in less than two weeks. Fortunately, it was a small caliber (.22 or .25 - I don't know for sure). Ironically, the only bullet that caused him lasting problems was the one in the arm. It damaged a nerve, and he had some numbness and slight loss of use of a couple of fingers on his left hand.

    The bullet that hit him in the face went into his cheek, and exited the back of his neck without hitting the spine or the carotid artery. The guy you posted about may have had something similar happen. There's really not a whole lot of meat between the back of throat and the back of the neck to give a HP a chance to expand, so if it missed the spine and carotid, it's possible that it wasn't an immediately incapacitating wound.

    My friend getting shot was probably the very reason I'm a gun enthusiast now. He told me after he got out of the hospital, "The whole time, I was just wishing I had a gun. The SOB might have still shot me once or twice, but he wouldn't have got me five times!"

    I bought my first gun a few days later. The first time I took it out to shoot, I realized, "Hey, this is FUN!" The rest is history!
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    Yes, shot placement is an all important factor. However, there is no accounting for what a determined BG can and will do, after having been shot.

    Given the time and space, shoot until the threat is stopped. Sounds good on paper. Hopefully, we will never have to put that to a test.
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    Distinguished Member Array David Armstrong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANGLICO View Post
    Ask yourself the origion of the M 1911. You will find the truth. The standard issue .38 did not kill or even stop the Philps hopped up and prepared for combat by tying off appendages with vines to counter gun shot wounds................ History.

    I ask you................ what load of .45 ACP was this Peace Officer loaded with..............? It was not what you and I would be using, because he was probably restricted by department and union rules................ I want to know?
    This is one of those great myths of the gun world, as Phaedrus points out. The truth is the .45 did not work any better than the .38 when it came to stopping the Moros, a truth that has been reflected regularly since then. Bullet design seems to have far more effect than bullet caliber and pretty much all the standard fighting calibers do about the same.
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    Senior Member Array Donn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by svgheartland View Post
    No caliber wars. Please! Life is too short. Surely we can evolve.
    ^^^ This ^^^ Shoot what you like and hope you never have to draw down.
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    A one-handed weapon is just that, and can thus only be so "powerful." A handgun is not a long gun, and even long guns are not 100%. Nothing ever is.
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    Senior Member Array Christopher67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaman View Post
    Not sure I agree with the statement "seemingly fading .40" It's still pretty prevelant around here.

    I agree, prevelant here also.

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    Each caliber has certain advantages - some leave larger cavities, some are less likely to be deflected, some are better at penetrating thin barriers, etc etc. There are good reasons for people to choose each, depending on their specific needs and thoughts on the issue. Still, the point is true - no projectile from any man-portable weapon will certainly stop an attacker instantly.
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