An explosive situation?

This is a discussion on An explosive situation? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...WS01/301100018 This was in the paper today DEERFIELD TWP. Firefighters responding to a house fire on Townsley Drive this morning were confronted with a ...

Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: An explosive situation?

  1. #1
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,544

    Question An explosive situation?

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...WS01/301100018

    This was in the paper today
    DEERFIELD TWP. Firefighters responding to a house fire on Townsley Drive this morning were confronted with a potentially explosive situation.

    They found a cannon ammunition canister sitting in the hallway of the home, dangerously close to the flames. It is unclear whether the canister actually contained ammunition.

    The fire department evacuated the house and a team from the Wright Patterson Air Force Base was called in to handle the military ordnance.
    Fire officials say finding ammunition in homes is not uncommon. But when its close to open flames, extra precautions need to be taken to make sure the contents if any dont explode.

    Everyone was ordered to remain 40 feet away until the situation was dealt with.
    Now, I have never tried throwing bullets in a fire to see what happens, so I don't know. I know that black powder tends to ignite when fire hits it. But the info given of a "cannon ammunition cannister" is not very specific so I'm not even sure what they mena by that? Like an old naval shell that has been deactivated? Or some Civil War relic for holding the powder bags?

    I know there are some firefighters around here, maybe one of them can clear things up for this on me, as far as what happens to ammo in a fire. Also, if they really thought the object was a threat, wouldn't you have wanted to be more than 40 feet away? And maybe behind some cover? Anyone got any ideas?
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member
    Array goawayfarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Fork Union, Virginia
    Posts
    2,690
    It was probably something like this. It is from a 105mm M900A1 Depleted Uranium Armor Piercing Stabilized Discarding Sabot-Tracer (APFSDS-T)...it is the empty shell casing.

    It won't surprise me in the least, if the one in the story turns out to be just as harmless as mine.......All mine does these days is serve as a cigar butt canister.

    (for reference...it is 24.5 inches tall)
    Attached Images
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  4. #3
    Member Array freetrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    353
    I had a training class one time where we watched a video made by a British company about that very thing. Standard small arms ammo of several calibers were tested in a fire to see how hot it had to get to ignite and how much damage it did. I do not recall the temperature that caused it to ignite but I do know that it all did go off. I can back that up with personal experiance from firefighting.

    As for the damage it did, they later placed several dummy bodies in the room and heated the ammo to the ignition point. All of the ammo lacked any serious danger out of the firearm in a storage box. Shrapnel from the cases were the biggest danger and they only caused what would be considered a minor flesh wound. When tested with Fire Gear on the dummies not once did it penetrate the gear.

  5. #4
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,544
    Ya know, thats what I was thinking, although them calling it a "cannon ammunition cannister" was somewhat confusing (but heck journalists seldom get terminology correct). But I was also thinking that they couldn't of made that mistake, because if one of the fire fighters had been heads up enough to identify it as that, he would of probably also known that it was a fired/deactivated round. I'll keep an eye on the news and see if they say anything.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  6. #5
    Lead Moderator
    Array rstickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Laurel, MD
    Posts
    21,627
    Years ago we were called out to a pretty messed up house near a famous Civil War battlefield. The home owner had found some "empty" cannon balls and made andirons (?) (The things that hold the logs in your fireplace) out of them!

    The surprising thing is they apparently worked for a couple years, till one winter's evening one of them decided it was time! Fortunately both occupants of the house were out of the room when it blew, so there were no injuries.

    Sometimes people do the stupidest things!!
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  7. #6
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,544
    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...WS01/301100018

    Here is an update. Apparently "cannon ammuniton canister" means inert arty shell. Well, at least no one got hurt.

    rstickle, I assume by empty you mean he at least knew that they were not the solid metal cannon balls still used at that time, and one of the types supposed to detonate for an airburst effect.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chesterfield, VA
    Posts
    1,950
    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle View Post
    Years ago we were called out to a pretty messed up house near a famous Civil War battlefield. The home owner had found some "empty" cannon balls and made andirons (?) (The things that hold the logs in your fireplace) out of them!

    The surprising thing is they apparently worked for a couple years, till one winter's evening one of them decided it was time! Fortunately both occupants of the house were out of the room when it blew, so there were no injuries.

    Sometimes people do the stupidest things!!
    If either of them had been killed they would be declared as casualties of "The War of Northern Aggression"
    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

    The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.

  9. #8
    Member Array MnemonicMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    172
    As a FF, I've often heard of these situations discussed, but never actually dealt with it. As stated, when ammo cooks off, the casing is much lighter than the bullet, so the casing is what actually ends up flying around.

    The problems arise when rounds are heated while chambered. That's when bad things happen. Just another reason firearms should be secured in a proper safe (and never horizontally.)
    "Lord, help me to be the person my dog thinks I am."

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Mt Airy, NC
    Posts
    2,158
    Hollywood has caused a lot of myths about rounds going off and killing people when placed in a fire. There is nothing to contain the blast except for the brass itself, so pieces of the brass casing will be more dangerous than the actual bullet. I have over 12,000 rounds of loaded ammo, and a couple 8lb kegs of powder and several 1lb canisters. The raw powder stays in a FP safe but not the ammo.
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
    Carry On!
    NCHornet

  11. #10
    Member Array JaredMcLaughlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    69

    I've actually been in a situation like this...

    dealing with a burning vehicle with several thousand rounds of 5.56 and 7.62 NATO, .50 cal, and 40mm grenade. The rifle rounds bounced around and stung quite a bit. The 40mm grenade rounds, the HE variety, lifted the vehicle off the ground. I'd say while in theory it's safe, in practice it's not a situation you want to deal with. If it's not a situation of life or limb, I'd give the thing 12 hours to cook off first.

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Derry, NH
    Posts
    988
    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye07 View Post
    [url]I know there are some firefighters around here, maybe one of them can clear things up for this on me, as far as what happens to ammo in a fire. Also, if they really thought the object was a threat, wouldn't you have wanted to be more than 40 feet away? And maybe behind some cover? Anyone got any ideas?
    Like others have mentioned, when ammo such as simple rounds "cooks off" it typically bursts through the side of the brass and makes a little noise and some fancy sparkles depending on what's in the case. The problem with things such as this news story is that when you get inside that building, you have no idea what you are going to run into. In a typical structure fire scenario, you cannot typically see and farther than a few inches from your SCBA mask. With that type of visibility, you could run into anything. If we see something that looks suspicious at all, we're out. Our safety is param ount on scene and we won't take chances unless there's life safety at risk.
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Police: Second explosive found in record cache in San Diego County
    By Coder in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: November 26th, 2010, 04:42 PM
  2. Bank Robbery/Explosive Device (Bomb)
    By Guantes in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: September 26th, 2010, 11:18 AM
  3. Ammo Explosive in Hot Car?
    By austinguy23 in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: May 1st, 2007, 11:25 AM
  4. Binary explosive that could be snuck on Airplane
    By profshadow in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: August 18th, 2006, 06:40 PM

Search tags for this page

types of an explosive situation

,

what happens to ammo in a fire

Click on a term to search for related topics.