Interesting response from LEOs about businesses with "No Gun Signs"

Interesting response from LEOs about businesses with "No Gun Signs"

This is a discussion on Interesting response from LEOs about businesses with "No Gun Signs" within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; let me set this up quick: the other day i was dropping off a modem for an internet service we no longer use and as ...

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Thread: Interesting response from LEOs about businesses with "No Gun Signs"

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    Senior Member Array vice87's Avatar
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    Interesting response from LEOs about businesses with "No Gun Signs"

    let me set this up quick:

    the other day i was dropping off a modem for an internet service we no longer use and as i was walking in to the building i saw a "no concealable weapons" sign across the bottom of the door. i was open carrying and since in Washington they have no force of law i continued in, finished, and left. as we were driving off the wife and i had a quick discussion about no gun signs and force of law, etc.

    fast forward to yesterday morning, my wife was chatting with a couple officers in the small PD in Oregon (still no force of law) she works for about "no gun signs" and force of law and their response was:

    the "no gun sign" is already the warning from the business not to come on to or in the private property with a weapon, and that because of that they do not need to give you a verbal, ask you to leave, etc. And if you do proceed then you are already committing the crime and they can just call the police and you can be arrested for said crimes.

    interesting, no? thoughts?
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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    Cool

    Well as you stated that signs have no force of law it sounds to me like once again some in LE think they are the know all end all.
    IOW you're right and they weren't.

    But I would not test drive that theory unless I had Gerry Spence on retainer and he owed me a HUGE FAVOR. If you get my drift.
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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    I bet they're wrong, legally speaking.
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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    Every time I YT some power hungry you know what they love to tell people it is illegal to video them while they are on the job. In some states they may be correct. In Washington they would be wrong Wrong WRONG. Ta daaaaa........
    I'm just a spoke in the wheel but not a big deal.
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    The way I was explained it was there is no arrestable offense but they can have you trespassed from their property. And at least here the Department of Licensing is notified and most of the time your permit will be revoked for a period of time due to you making a bad moral decision. That being said I can't say if I would proceed or put it in the car but I also haven't seen any signs around here either, and I've been looking just about everywhere I go.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Here are the criminal trespass statutes in Oregon ...


    Oregon Revised Statutes

    ORS 164 -- Offenses Against Property

    164.243 Criminal trespass in the second degree by a guest. A guest commits the crime of criminal trespass in the second degree if that guest intentionally remains unlawfully in a transient lodging after the departure date of the guest’s reservation without the approval of the hotelkeeper. “Guest” means a person who is registered at a hotel and is assigned to transient lodging, and includes any individual accompanying the person. [1979 c.856 §2]



    164.245 Criminal trespass in the second degree. (1) A person commits the crime of criminal trespass in the second degree if the person enters or remains unlawfully in a motor vehicle or in or upon premises.

    (2) Criminal trespass in the second degree is a Class C misdemeanor. [1971 c.743 §139; 1999 c.1040 §9]



    164.250 [Repealed by 1971 c.743 §432]



    164.255 Criminal trespass in the first degree. (1) A person commits the crime of criminal trespass in the first degree if the person:

    (a) Enters or remains unlawfully in a dwelling;

    (b) Having been denied future entry to a building pursuant to a merchant’s notice of trespass, reenters the building during hours when the building is open to the public with the intent to commit theft therein;

    (c) Enters or remains unlawfully upon railroad yards, tracks, bridges or rights of way; or

    (d) Enters or remains unlawfully in or upon premises that have been determined to be not fit for use under ORS 453.855 to 453.912.

    (2) Subsection (1)(d) of this section does not apply to the owner of record of the premises if:

    (a) The owner notifies the law enforcement agency having jurisdiction over the premises that the owner intends to enter the premises;

    (b) The owner enters or remains on the premises for the purpose of inspecting or decontaminating the premises or lawfully removing items from the premises; and

    (c) The owner has not been arrested for, charged with or convicted of a criminal offense that contributed to the determination that the premises are not fit for use.

    (3) Criminal trespass in the first degree is a Class A misdemeanor. [1971 c.743 §140; 1993 c.680 §23; 1999 c.837 §1; 2001 c.386 §1; 2003 c.527 §1]



    164.260 [Repealed by 1971 c.743 §432]



    164.265 Criminal trespass while in possession of a firearm. (1) A person commits the crime of criminal trespass while in possession of a firearm who, while in possession of a firearm, enters or remains unlawfully in or upon premises.

    (2) Criminal trespass while in possession of a firearm is a Class A misdemeanor. [1979 c.603 §2]
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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    Ain't it too bad lawyers can't rewrite their legalese into Laymanese or everyonewithahighschooldiplomaese. Life would be sooooooo much simpler and attorneys would have to fine HONEST WORK.

    No I ain't talking to StormRyder or PEF here.
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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    Ain't it too bad lawyers can't rewrite their legalese into Laymanese or everyonewithahighschooldiplomaese. Life would be sooooooo much simpler and attorneys would have to find HONEST WORK.

    No I ain't talking to StormRyder or PEF here.
    I'm just a spoke in the wheel but not a big deal.
    America...a Constitutional Republic. NOT a democracy as the liberals would have us believe.
    Give me Liberty or give me BACON!!!
    You know that look women give you when they want some sugar? Me neither

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    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    Somebody please explain to me why these people cannot see that what they are doing is telling the law abiding to stay out, and telling the criminals that no one will be in here to resist your criminal behavior, we are sitting ducks. What am I missing. They are creating crime zones.
    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunder bolt...... Sun Tzu.

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    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    how in the world can they NOT know that signs mean little? seriously? In MN its similar, signs mean little but it would become trespassing if the management asks you to leave and you don't.

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    Senior Member Array vice87's Avatar
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    that's just it. according to these officers, the sign is the business "asking you to leave". so any procession beyond that point is criminal and requires no further action or warning from the business except to call the authorities because you have already been warned by the sign. but if the signs have no force of law.......................?

    and the Oregon law that ccw9mm posted may or may not allude to that as well.

    see why I wanted to post it?
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    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    i don't see anything in the posted statutes that says signs are in force like that. I'd think on stats as important as this LEO would get briefed on the application of law by city attorney. I'd think there are other stats in the carry section that would spell it out.



    Quote Originally Posted by vice87 View Post
    that's just it. according to these officers, the sign is the business "asking you to leave". so any procession beyond that point is criminal and requires no further action or warning from the business except to call the authorities because you have already been warned by the sign. but if the signs have no force of law.......................?

    and the Oregon law that ccw9mm posted may or may not allude to that as well.

    see why I wanted to post it?
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    My experience with LEOs is they are not all that knowledgeable on the intricacies of law. I would not base a decision on their say so. A lawyer would be a better choice and could probably quote case law affirming or denying what the LEOs think.
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    Member Array hek1620's Avatar
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Cops need to stop thinking they're lawyers and just be happy to hand out tickets and arrest reports. If you wanted to practice law, you should've gone to law school. What really burns my biscuits about this, is that this is why so many people get falsely arrested for something the cop thought was a violation of the law. And after all is said and done, the cop continues his/her normal life and the victims life, bank account and record is ruined.

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    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    In Oregon, a posted or un-posted business can ask you to leave if they see you are carrying. If you refuse to leave, you are guilty of misdemeanor trespassing if arrested. They can ask you to leave for other reasons with the same consequences.
    Last edited by LimaCharlie; June 24th, 2014 at 09:23 AM. Reason: Spelling
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