Interesting observation at local public range
This is a discussion on Interesting observation at local public range within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I also harvest brass. I am a member at two ranges, one outdoor where you can go in front of the line to retrieve brass ...
February 4th, 2007 08:26 PM
I also harvest brass. I am a member at two ranges, one outdoor where you can go in front of the line to retrieve brass and one indoor where you can't. At both I always aim to come home with more than I took with me.
In the past few months I have picked up everything from .380 to .50AE.
That includes .38 super, .38 spl, .357 mag, .357 sig, 9mm, .40, .45, 10mm and even 5.7mm. I don't know how people can drop revolver ammo but they do.
I would guess the most common is still 9mm, then .22lr, then .40.
I always keep an eye on the other shooters, especially on the occasions when they look like gang members. As long as they are safe I don't mind who shoots near me, or how fast they use their Wal*Mart white box.
February 4th, 2007 11:50 PM
I have been thinking of starting to reload given the higher cost of ammo. But it would seem to me, the supplies will keep up as well. And maybe come closer as more people start reloading.
Given most of the folks at the public outdoor range are not all that good. I think I have a very good advantage if I meet the BG some day. Some of them scare me.
I belong to a members only outdoor club, and most of the folks their are not bad shots. They seam to be in it for the quality hits, not just sending lead down range.
I must admit some times it is just plain fun to pull the trigger as fast as I can.
If you don't protect your self, who will?
February 5th, 2007 03:51 AM
I agree and I am from the younger age group (I am 22). I see folks my age more and more want to do X,Y or Z but not want to get any training or help to learn and that is not just in shooting but in everything. When I learned to shot my dad taught myself and 2 friends on revolvers, and then my uncle introduced me to pistols. Both of these men have been shooting and carrying since before I was born, both are (as am I) more interested in quality than quanity. Over christmas I had the opportunity to take a 20 year old friend out to the range to teach her how to shoot. I stressed quality, she shot probably 75 rounds of 38 out of my dad's 357 that day in more than 2 and a half hours, while I concentrated more on my 380 and mom's 38 charter arms j-frame. Out of our shots 95% or more were atleast on paper from 30 feet - 80% + were COM.
Originally Posted by jdlv4_0
I think we have too many new shooters who are getting into it blind. They want to have a gun so they go buy one and start to shoot. They dont seek out competent teachers nor do they seek out certified training. I will admit I have not had the opportunity as of yet to take a training course, But I want to and I have been trained by competent teachers and I am very safe on the range. The trust for my safety and ability my parents have was shown by us making it a family trip for me to buy my first gun and them lending me the house gun and moms ccw (both she and dad were home with a glock) to go to the range to teach a friend.
Last edited by me; February 5th, 2007 at 03:52 AM.
Reason: Thought addition
"The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."
-James Earl Jones
February 5th, 2007 09:20 AM
I'm convinced that aiming at a target and having one whit of concern for safety measures are two distinctly separate skills. All too often, one is taught without the other. IMO, the one should be taught until it's a part of one's bones ... then, and only then, should the other be taught. Otherwise, everyone's at risk.
Data point: The other day at the rifle range, I saw a guy approach with a friend, toting a nice AR15. It was brought out onto the table with the muzzle pointing all directions and the hand/finger placement all over the grip/trigger area. When done with a string of shots, he'd place the gun back onto the table while ignoring muzzle control. Thankfully, an older, pistol of a range officer was standing guard and a word to him prompted a strong discussion with the young, wayward shooter. From then on, he held the others in a bit more respect. I have no doubt that had he continued to display a complete disregard for safety, he'd have had his membership to the club yanked and been summarily ejected from the range. He was that close. (Needless to say, since I was at the next stall beside him, I stood well away until his understanding was resolved for him.)
February 5th, 2007 09:44 AM
I could go on and on about public ranges. I've worked on one for several years during college, I've seen about every thing there is to see at a range.
Guns fall apart and the slide knocking out the teeth of a guy, fat guys taking belly shots "because they know how to shoot, after all grandpa taught them years ago", fingers exploding because a kid wants to shoot a 454 with his hand wrapped around the barrel, again, he knew how to do it, Grandpa taught him.
I've seen the famous Kaboom from Glocks, and every one of them was from a misused gun, who's owner apparently knew more about the weapon the Gaston Glock himself. I broke a guys finger once because he came around with a Beretta 92 (I was in the booth with him) so he could show me the "malfunction". It was not a malfunction at all, the gun was in single action mode, there was simply more "loose" trigger space as he put it before the gun went off. The gun was taken away from him, and he got a ride to the ER.
I got shot once on a public range. Yup, I really did, but its not as bad as it sounds. The backstop was not and still is not maintained. A 9mm bounce off the stop and came right back at my throat. Luckily is was in a weaver stance gun up and shooting. The bullet struck my left hand just below my ring finger, and destroyed a G23 that I was shooting. I didn't think the bullet would have had that kind of velocity left, but it did. Had I just been standing there, it would have caught my throat. That would have been really bad. It cost me a few weeks of work, some surgery, and it still hurts during cold weather.
I saw a suicide while working there... that was kind of erie. Guy comes in, rents a .357. He buys a couple of boxes of .38s, and one box of .357. He goes on the range, shoots the .38s up, loads up with .357. Starts with this banshee like yelling, I was just about to tell him to knock it off, then bang, he offed himself. It really made a mess of things. I had to work over my time, 'cause the LEO's wanted to talk all day long about this. I missed school that day.
Once there was a photo shoot on the range after hours... That was really cool. It was one of those "hot chicks with guns" type of things.
The biggest problem with public ranges is this; people view it as entertainment, not training.
There are the vast majority of shooters that feel that they are experts at pistol craft because grandpa taught them years ago, and they know everything there is to know.
Then you have the Tactical Timmy crowd that reads every moronic gun magazine, plays video games. So they go out and buy their HK whatever was in tomb raider, thigh holsters etc. They come in looking for the "anti terrorist" ammo they saw in a magazine (remember that! ) Then they go out on the range and "practice". For what I don't know. The dance around, summer saults whatever they saw in their goofy video games until they get kicked out, and sent to the local dungeons and dragons club.
Then there is the small amount of folks that are really shooters. There interests are in rational self defense, bulls eye shooting or whatever. What a relief when you get someone in like that.
I guess I'll stop here. Like I said I could go on and on, and I've already started too.
"Just blame Sixto"
I reserve the right to make fun, point and laugh etc.
February 5th, 2007 03:46 PM
SIXTO says: The biggest problem with public ranges is this; people view it as entertainment, not training.
X 100 I get my entertainment from having quality training. Others don't view it that way, so as long as they are safe, I guess it is better than having them as anti's. My previous comments were observations while I was grouchy, but valid none the less.
VA has been messing with my meds too, SaltySquid!
February 5th, 2007 04:14 PM
Every moron, mall ninja and wanna be gangsta in the area goes to that range, its kinda scary there. I remember hearing about that suicide there too. I try to avoid going there, but sometimes when I just want to get some quick range time or its like it is today outside (bet your finger must be killin ya today), I'll go there. I got a small sliver of a bullet in my face their once from a ricochet off either the backstop or a target holder. Gotta keep a close eye on the folks at indoor ranges.
The other indoor range I use is the one on campus. It's close, I don't have to drive 30+ minutes, but it only takes .22's, and you have to be part of a school shooting organization/class to use it, and can only do so during certain times. I have commented on here several times about the shooters on that range, most of whom have never touched a firearm before, or are just general morons. I am a range safety officer for it, and usually have to keep a pretty sharp eye out. Everyone wants to shoot like they see in the movies, with no real attempt at training or improving their skills.
I have been guilty in the past of blasting away like ammo was candy. It is fun to do sometimes. But the vast majority of my rounds are sent downrange with a purpose. Too bad most ranges I know don't allow any sort of draw practice on the line (well, with some of the people on the range, its understandable), so I usually start from a low ready to at least practice sight acquisition. Most of my peers don't even try to do any sort of training, just buy a gun they saw in the movies and shoot it a few times like a moron till they are tired of it. It's a source of fun for them, not a serious tool.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor
February 5th, 2007 07:38 PM
I use a Forestry Service range and have few problems...'cuz I go while everyone else at work/school! A lonley day at the range...or with selected company...is a good day.
Why? Because of a day that included two non-English-speaking males of discernible origin firing AK's like there was no tomorrow...or at least unlimited ammo...with little or no muzzle control. They were swingin' and shootin' everywhere. Sheesh...and I thought the city kids were scary!!! (The hill-folk don't bother me...they KNOW their weapons and are usually safety conscious.) That ended my range visits on weekends and after 1500.
[Flame retardant: the description of the males in question is provided as factual information concerning those two particular individuals only... it is not meant to generally characterize non-English-speaking or multi-lingual males of any origin who reside in the Central USA.]
Oh...and I like doing doubles, triples, and Bill Drills....with the intent to fire accurately. Then...just 'cuz...I'll load one round at a time...and call the shot. That's fun...and frustrating...kinda like playing golf.
XD9 Service, CZ-75B, Glock 21, Kel-Tec P3AT
"Unofficial Legislative Attache...er...Watchdog...er...Agitator
"Yes, I vote...but not for the candidate I prefer: None of the Above.
February 5th, 2007 08:30 PM
Ah...shooting with the public. I guess its like anything else, there is always at least one idiot. We have all probably seen firearm misuse due to lack of training, over-zealousness or just plain ignorance.
It is pretty easy to tell who is serious about shooting and who is there for fun. The folks that are there for entertainment lack purpose or a routine. I find at least for me that my range time is beneficial only when I have decided in advance what I am trying to accomplish. While I enjoy shooting just for the sake of shooting my range time is laid out to make sure that I am ingraining the proper stance, sight picture, presentation and trigger control. Those are things that I have to commit to memory. They have to become automatic.
I would hazard a guess that everyone on this board approaches their range time in much the same manner. Even though we all enjoy shooting we are at the range in order to prepare for that moment when we have to be on our game. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we are there for a purpose. We train properly because we have decided to take responsibility for the defense of ourselves and our families and we take that responsibility very seriously. Due to this fact the ones that are there for fun stick out like sore thumbs to us.
"Do not fear those who disagree with you; fear those that do and are too cowardly to admit it" - Napoleon
February 5th, 2007 08:48 PM
People do weird things at indoor ranges. I was at a range at Fairavilla and as I walked in there was this shooter ricochetting slugs off the side wall trying to hit a target down range.
February 5th, 2007 09:44 PM
I don't have an indoor range to go to. We use one of the ranges on Ft. Riley. It is run by very competent and professional active duty or retired senior NCO's. We have distances out to 400 meters. The range officers put up with zero games. We must show our post weapons registration, sign the log book, fix our own targets, move them to shooting table etc. They usually have 10-15 minute "hot times", blow the whistle, do the military clear on the left, clear on the right thing, range is now cold, go check targets. If at any time, you even get near the table when there are people downrange, you are asked to leave. Have only seen one "John Wayne" there in 18 years.
No burn the barrel firing, no waving handguns around. Everyone on line that is shooting is also a safety. Holler "cease fire", person being stupid gets talked to, once. In my mind, I can put up with the military system, knowing that we are relatively safe when on line. Glad I don't have to put up with some of the crap you guys have been chatting about.
A person is justified in the use of deadly force, if such person reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or a third person.
February 5th, 2007 10:09 PM
February 6th, 2007 03:46 PM
I frequent an outdoor unregulated range maintained by the conservaion dept. To be honest I've been reletively impressed by the behavior of other shooters there. I often go if I have a day off during the week and am the only one there. Every now and then a "ya-hoo" will show up who only wants to see how fast he can empty a 30round mag through his AK from the hip while his girlfriend video tapes for a youtube spot, but they are the exception and not the rule at this particular range.
"Some people go to bed with Lucifer..........then cry, cry, cry when they don't greet the day with God."
February 6th, 2007 03:50 PM
Ya know what? I've noticed the same thing at the outdoor ranges run by Ohio Dept. of Natural Resources. I wonder why that is. The indoor public raanges around here are a nightmare.
Originally Posted by craze
"Just blame Sixto"
I reserve the right to make fun, point and laugh etc.
February 6th, 2007 09:26 PM
I've seen a number of posts already that more than cover what I would have responded...It also seems that more and more of the younger generation coming in tries to emulate hollywood or the "gangsta" styles promoted by the c'Rappers'.
I've found myself not feeling very safe in indoor public ranges anymore and when I'm not able to shoot on private property(family land) I go to outdoor ranges and usually if I notice anyone I haven't seen before or someone acting in an unsafe manner I usually leave.
I have actually disassembled someone's firearm and tossed the barrel. It was at a public range at a remote WMA with no RSO. The fellow was quite unsafe and his "friend" mentioned that he should follow some simple basic safety rules at which point he became visibly hot-headed and argumentative. Being at the next station I interjected myself into the conversation via the "My... that's a nice looking gun- Mind if I take a look?" line. He seemed to cool down a bit and as soon as I had possession, I immediately field stripped his glock and tossed the barrel out into the field of fire. When he was done with his "***'s" I explained my actions calmly...that it was due to the rest of us feeling unsafe around him. This seemed to get his attention (especially since he finally noticed that all the folks that had been shooting before he arrived were all hiding back behind him). Once done and over with I offered to walk out and find his barrel after the range all clear was given and/or replace it brand new if I couldn't find it and also offered to spend some time with him on the range to work on his safety and shooting skills.
I do have to emphasize though that this is NOT a recommended method. The only reason I did this is that it was a very remote area cell phones didnt work, and leaving would only leave the rest of the shooters to have to deal with this fellow or get shot by him. So the quickest solution was to gain control of the weapon peaceablhy and immediately render it unusable. Seemed like sound logic at the time...although I wouldn't do it again in the future.
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