Interesting observation at local public range

This is a discussion on Interesting observation at local public range within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I spent a happy afternoon at a local public outdoor pistol range. In addition to practicing my marksmanship, I find that it is a great ...

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Thread: Interesting observation at local public range

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    Member Array Velocette's Avatar
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    Interesting observation at local public range

    I spent a happy afternoon at a local public outdoor pistol range. In addition to practicing my marksmanship, I find that it is a great place to harvest once fired brass from those shooters far wealthier than I. I'm glad that they can afford to shoot factory ammunition. Harvesting as I do, I have noted that the mix of ammunition has changed a bit over the past few years. The once predominant (ubiquitous) 9mm is no longer the hands down favorite. The 40 S&W is giving the 9 a run as the most popular and the .45 acp is more common than a few years ago and darn little else was seen. On the firearms side, it is clear that the plastic pistols are VERY popular. I believe that I was one of only a few that had all metal pistols and one of even fewer that shot a revolver.
    Sadly, marksmanship has declined on average. I looked at all 20 of the target holders (at 50 ft) while wandering downrange to look at my groups. Darn few groups were seen, the vast majority was loose patterns with the target holders getting the worst of it (24" W X 30" H set about 4 feet off the ground) The ground in front of and behind the target holders was all chewed up from stray ( ? ) rounds.
    I also observed that a lot of people are obsessed with rapid fire. 10 rds in 5 seconds and a lot of dust downrange.
    I had one gentleman ask me how I could put 8 rds of .45 into 3" at 50 ft in about 8 seconds using both hands. I did not have the heart to tell him I (Use-ta-could) use to put 10 rds into less than 2" with one hand behind my back in 10 seconds. (concentration, sight picture, trigger squeeze - -practice practice practice.) sigh.

    What do you-all see at your local range?

    Roger
    Last edited by Velocette; February 4th, 2007 at 04:22 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    Like you, lotsa shootin' & less hittin' than in years past.

    9's are still popular, but .45's and especially .40's are more so. Modern pistolero tactics/doctrine is apparentlyget a polymer high cap, point it at the BG and blaze away.

    I'd criticize that kind of thinking, but I won't, 'cause I think it works, even if I don't like it.

    Don't get me wrong, I think LEO's and all are still taught to aim their weapons, but I think they're ALSO taught to get that 2d, 3d, 4th (whatever) round into or at the BG ASAP, too. There's a good reason for that, too: handgun rounds are not sure one-shot stoppers- none of'em are.

    To mix apples and oranges here, it resembles military shooting a little bit (IMHO). Since WWI or so, we've moved from "one shot one kill" to "hurl lead toward the target, the more the better". In armed forces type combat the shooting can make the BG's get their heads down and provide cover, etc.

    If you're from a hunting background, it's a kind of thinking that requires some getting used to. But, IMHO, it's valid, 'cause, like I say, handgun rounds aren't fantastic one-shot stoppers, so the more the merrier- and as quickly as possible.
    "...bad decisions that turn out well often make heroes."


    Gary D. Mitchell, A Sniper's Journey: The Truth About the Man and the Rifle, P. 103, NAL Caliber books, 2006, 1st Ed.

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    Rapid fire is good, but it still needs to be on target.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    I tend to agree with the observations, altho 9mm sure gets a good use with local IDPA, along with .40 and .45acp..

    I try to differentiate between true rapid and ''blazing'' - tho at times hard to tell them apart!! We do most definitely need to practice fast shooting but, with attention to consistency and grip etc. There is little doubt that two fast misses will not do as much as two slower hits!!

    Some folks seem to just enjoy ''blazing'' .... which is Ok up to a point but at times a lot of that seems pretty distracting. Maybe distraction is good tho as we are unlikely to be in a peaceful environment if under fire!!

    I also at times wonder about the apparent bottomless purses some folks seem to have, with their profligate burning up of ammo!
    Chris - P95
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    I see what ever is popular in TV, movies and music videos. It has got so bad that I wont visit public ranges anymore.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Way too many people burning through ammo way too fast. I also see relatively few practicing like they would use the weapon. The aimed fire I see is more like target shooting with no attempt at a rapid first round on target. I also see folks failing to take the first shot like they would draw and use their weapon.

    Train like you are going to fight. It is obvious to even a casual observer that most are not students of armed conflict at the ranges

    Makes me glad that I am a member of the forum and can learn from others.
    21 years and 21 days, United States Marine Corps & NRA Life Member since 1972

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    I doubt I am any more wealthy than you Roger. If I were wealthy, I may go make the investment in reloading equipment. However, I stick with buying bulk ammo at low prices. It would cost me more upfront and less in the long run to reload, I know. But, my way doesn't break the bank either.

    Apart from that, I guess I am headed toward being one of the people you spoke of. Picking up sights is harder than it used to be (and I'm not that old) and Randy is correct about multiple rounds being important. I find that I am slower at getting round one on target, but faster on follow shots than I used to be. Could be that I am not seeing the sights as well as my mind says I am, but I don't know. The groups are bigger, but they are still COM
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    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
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    I don't pay any attention to what others are doing at the range. It's their business, and not my place to judge.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

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    JD
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    I once saw two guys dressed identically (definately non LEO/MIL) with thier matching Glocks and FOBUS holsters, shooting the 3 round capacity of the range in about 3 seconds. They hit dirt, the target backers, and ocassionally the paper...


    It seems to me that atlseast here in PA and other places, some members of the younger generation are getting into firearms, but not into training.

    As noted above this all goes along with "What's on TV"

    Personally I feel every one that is going to own a firearm be trained to use it, while most of us here have been taught since our early youth and or military training we tend to balk at some of the "requirements" to obtain our CCW/LTCF, etc. etc. but this is the cost.

    As the crowd at the range gets younger, you will see much enthusiasm, but less of the fundamentals.

    Now when I say younger, I don't always mean age alone, some new shooters are just new, and unfortunately as stated above, training is not always a requirement.

    Velocetete, I hope you did tell them how you can do it, when ever we see people not practicing the fundamentals and asking for advice, we should give it whole heartedly and encourage them to take what ever training classes they can find.

    If no one is willing to teach them, they will never learn.

    I've gone out of my way a few times to help out those asking for pointers, I've even been late for dinner a few times because of it, but to me, time on the range helping others is almost as good as being the one shooting.

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    I don't pay any attention to what others are doing at the range.
    I know where you are comin from but - one reservation. Now and again I see as I expect others might, some ''idiot shooters'' ........ and those I do want to pay attention to in case they decide that my direction is where their loaded gun will sweep!

    I am lucky and rarely shoot on a crowded range but - oh my - there have been a few times when I could not concentrate fully on what I was doing, because of the need to monitor potential idiots. Blatant ones will usually and hopefully get sent on their way home but there are others who might not be quite as obvious idiots but who are still a liability.

    I am convinced there are a few folks in indoor ranges who consider the lane separator baffles are bullet proof!
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
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    I usually have no idea what is going on two stalls down. I don't know how one could monitor others in that manner while shooting their own gun. I have enough on my plate concentrating safe shooting. If I felt that I had to constantly worry about others, I would stop going to the range.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

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    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Ever wonder how all those bullet holes got into the ceiling at the indoor range??? Somebody was probley doing a Dirty Harry stance. You know what I mean. The gun pointed over the shooters head,then brought down with hammer cocked and gun goes off while still in the air. I saw this happen one night twice by the same shooter. What an idiot.

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    Member Array Velocette's Avatar
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    Gentlemen, I was not discussing COM hits, (10" ~ 12" diameter circle at 50 feet.) That's reasonable defensive shooting. I mean 200 rounds downrange and perhaps 30 on the paper (24X30) When approached the shooter suggested that he did not need to learn "nuthin" from some old man.
    Fine by me, I harvested his once fired .40 brass and watched him make a fool of himself.
    I was a certified NRA pistol instructor and an NRA Master Bullseye shooter. (Hence I use-ta-could) If he - they would listen and apply, in 20 minutes their targets would have a lot more holes in COM, but I might not harvest as much nice shiny new brass.

    Roger

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    I used to work in a range in NJ and have seen all kinds of horrible shooting and occasional stupidity.
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    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocette View Post
    Gentlemen, I was not discussing COM hits, (10" ~ 12" diameter circle at 50 feet.) That's reasonable defensive shooting. I mean 200 rounds downrange and perhaps 30 on the paper (24X30) When approached the shooter suggested that he did not need to learn "nuthin" from some old man.
    Fine by me, I harvested his once fired .40 brass and watched him make a fool of himself.
    I was a certified NRA pistol instructor and an NRA Master Bullseye shooter. (Hence I use-ta-could) If he - they would listen and apply, in 20 minutes their targets would have a lot more holes in COM, but I might not harvest as much nice shiny new brass.

    Roger

    HEHE, accuracy speaks. If you offered advice, and they don't want it, well it's thier bed, they can sleep in it. But atleast you offered.

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