Domestic violence and gun ownership - Page 2

Domestic violence and gun ownership

This is a discussion on Domestic violence and gun ownership within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by HotGuns FWIW...I hate people that abuse other people. This piece of trash law unfairly and illegally punishes people for a misdemeanor for ...

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Thread: Domestic violence and gun ownership

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    FWIW...I hate people that abuse other people. This piece of trash law unfairly and illegally punishes people for a misdemeanor for crying out loud...which is no different than getting a jaywalking or a speeding ticket.
    Not only that, it punishes people who were convicted (possibly pleaded guilty to avoid the cost of trial) before the law was passed!

    So the law treats people as though they AGREED to its restrictions, even though those restrictions did not exist when the plea deal was taken.

    I'm sure plenty of people took deals when they really weren't guilty of squat, just because they were told it would cost a fortune to fight it and hey, what's the big deal with having a misdemeanor on your record (the lawyer would've said at the time).

    Then Louse-enberg screwed 'em. That law is CLEARLY unconstitutional. Where the hell are the challenges to it?!


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Agreed with others, the sandwich story ont he surface seems to be missing some meat.
    How could a prosecutor prove that there was harm or even a sandwich thrown unless he jammed it in her face or against her head with force which then would make it a weapon and be DV.

    - Janq
    Sometimes the cops get called, and the fool opens his mouth and says, "Yeah I did it but..." and that's all they need to hear, right?

    People don't know how to keep their mouths shut to stay out of trouble. I understand the need to, and even I still have trouble keeping myself from blabbing on.

  3. #18
    Member Array TwistedMonkey's Avatar
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    geez....she must of been a vegan!

  4. #19
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    We are getting off topic, but I'll chime in anyway.

    I think this stems from all the stupid policies that police depts. have about making an arrest anytime a allegation of DV is made. I am so glad the trend is getting away from this.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #20
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    DV isn't solely physical abuse, women also suffer mental abuse. I get the impression that LEOs can sense when someone is a bully and will gladly side against him, even if there aren't bruises this particular time.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.O. Interceptor View Post
    I'm sorry but your friend's story sounds a little fishy to me. I can't even imagine anyone getting arrested for throwing a sandwich at someone, much less getting a prosecutor to take the case, and then getting a jury to convict. Even the most liberal prosecutors that I've heard of wouldn't touch that case. Are you sure the sandwich wasn't still on the plate?

    Maybe throwing the sandwich was one part of the story, but I can't believe that's all that happened. The slamming the door in someone's face is a little hard to believe too. Sorry, but cops have discretion and above average BS detectors. If someone called me for a sandwich being throw at them or having a door slammed in their face, I'd laugh at them.

    I can understand your reaction, but I know for a fact that at least one person was arrested here in KY, for supposedly punching his ex wife, at an event where thirty plus people witnessed the altercation and confirmed that nothing of the sort happened. Domestic violence is inexcusable, but it is way to easy for someone to say, "he hit me" and instantly land another person in jail.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    There was an article in the NRA mags a few years back about a mother whose teenage daughter was out of control. The mother threw the car keys at her daughter and told her to get out or something like that. She was charged with DV for throwing the keys. She lost her 2A rights. I'll bet stuff like this happens all the time. What a shame.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  8. #23
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    peacefulljeffrey - and many others - have wondered where the challenges to this blatantly unconstitutional law are... The fact is, it has been challenged and is continuing to be challenged. The sad fact, however, is that no judge is willing to overturn it, and then have some domestic abuser kill his spouse with a firearm that he would not legally been able to obtain had they upheld this BS law... A classic case of CYA, and the Right of the People be damned... Here is some more info from the link I provided in my earlier post:

    The provisions of the Lautenberg Amendment have been challenged on three primary grounds. First, opponents of the law maintain that it violates the Commerce Clause by classifying as a federal offense activity that does not have an effect on interstate commerce as required by the Supreme Court’s decision in United States v.
    Lopez. It has also been argued that the law violates the Equal Protection Clause by punishing domestic violence misdemeanors more harshly than other misdemeanor offenses, by punishing misdemeanor but not felony offenses, and by excluding law
    enforcement officers convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence offenses from the public interest exception of 18 U.S.C. §925(a)(1). Furthermore, the law has been attacked as a violation of the Ex Post Facto Clause on the basis that it prohibits the possession of a firearm by a domestic violence misdemeanant even if the predicate offense occurred prior to its enactment.

    Reviewing courts have rejected these challenges to the Lautenberg Amendment, determining that its provisions fall within acceptable constitutional parameters. Regarding the Commerce Clause, courts have held that the law contains an express jurisdictional element requiring a finding that the firearm in question was possessed in or affecting commerce, or was received after having been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, obviating the concerns at issue in United States v. Lopez. Equal Protection Clause challenges have been rejected upon the determination that Congress rationally concluded that misdemeanor domestic violence offenders
    should not possess firearms. Finally, the courts have held that the law does not violate the Ex Post Facto Clause in that it prohibits post-enactment possession and does not criminalize conduct occurring before its enactment.
    If these are not BS justifications (it's falls under the Interstate Commerce Clause because some future gun that the misdemeanant might posess might have to be shipped across state lines?!?) then I don't know what are...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  9. #24
    Troll Array MACpistol's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. The Lautenberg is the one that I was thinking of.
    I understand what they were trying to do with the law, and it isn't such a bad thing.
    WOA! Yes it is a bad thing to pervert the constitution and manufacture creative ways to take local issues, and hand them to the unaccountable federal tyranny. Lautenberg was passed under a republican congress. Both parties are our enemy. Only a tiny group of items can LEGALLY be "federal crimes." Allowing other things to be CALLED federal crimes by a corrupt congress and corrupt "judges" assists in the destruction of the constitution.

    Of course Lautenberg is as unconstitutional as the day is long, but trying to get the GOVERNMENT'S courts to rule that the GOVERNMENT has overstepped it's authority, is next to impossible, especially when women are involved.

    If your friend COULD have been sentenced to more than a year, then he has a problem. Expungement is the next step.

    Next outrage:
    Well, the sandwich case didn't go to a jury. His attorney advised him to plead guilty, or it would cost quite a bit to get him off.
    It should be flatly illegal for attorneys (which are officers of the COURT and owe no loyalty to you no matter HOW much you're paying them) to ever suggest this. You can plead guilty without that snake of an attorney.

    Sickening outrage:
    DV isn't solely physical abuse, women also suffer mental abuse.
    I know many MEN who suffered a lot of "mental abuse" from women. The real issue though are these horrible MADE UP phrases that women use, such as "mental abuse, psychological abuse, emotional abuse etc". They're totally made up and are too vague to possibly have any meaning yet women throw them around like rice at a wedding. I know many men who had those labels thrown at them for merely disagreeing with a woman. Disagreeing with her and defending your opinion now constitutes "emotional abuse," "psychological abuse," and "mental abuse" in the minds of many many women. Letting them rewrite the english language is dangerous business.

  10. #25
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    I know many MEN who suffered a lot of "mental abuse" from women. The real issue though are these horrible MADE UP phrases that women use, such as "mental abuse, psychological abuse, emotional abuse etc". They're totally made up and are too vague to possibly have any meaning yet women throw them around like rice at a wedding. I know many men who had those labels thrown at them for merely disagreeing with a woman. Disagreeing with her and defending your opinion now constitutes "emotional abuse," "psychological abuse," and "mental abuse" in the minds of many many women. Letting them rewrite the english language is dangerous business.
    No. This isn't what I was referring to and you know it.
    Some people may claim that they are being abused, mentally or physically, and on closer inspection are found to be fabricating a story to implicate someone in an illegal act. That is as old as humankind.
    I am referring however to women who genuinely suffer abuse that doesn't show as bruises, but rather as inappropriate control such as imposed social interaction limitations, jealousy, character undermining and other childish bullying.
    If you think women are making all this up go talk to my Mother. But then you will probably dismiss her out of hand.

    Life is for learning from people.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Ah, the lovely Lautenberg Amendment...

    From http://www.peaceathomeshelter.org/DV...lautenberg.pdf



    p.
    We have had active duty Marines have their weapon taken away for domestic violence.

  12. #27
    Member Array jeffkirchner's Avatar
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    Federal law only prohibits felons from buying and owning guns. A misdemeanor conviction for violence or drugs would probably prohibit him from getting a license to carry a gun concealed, but it can't stop him from buying a gun.<< Ohio law
    The early-bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

  13. #28
    Troll Array MACpistol's Avatar
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    Federal law only prohibits felons from buying and owning guns.
    Yyyyyyea, as well as people with CERTAIN misdemeanors.
    Last edited by Bumper; March 6th, 2007 at 11:38 PM. Reason: Personal attacks edited out.

  14. #29
    Member Array ms.k's Avatar
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    So what if the wife or SO has a clean record, then marries a guy who can't legally carry? Is she still allowed to have a gun in THEIR home?

  15. #30
    Member Array ms.k's Avatar
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    Also, if there really ISN'T more to the story, women like this give real DV abuse victims a black eye. I think if she really has put 4people in jail for frivolous reasons, she needs be looked into!

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