Domestic violence and gun ownership

Domestic violence and gun ownership

This is a discussion on Domestic violence and gun ownership within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I have a friend who was convicted of D.V. for throwing a sandwich at his g.f. a few years ago. He always talks about how ...

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Thread: Domestic violence and gun ownership

  1. #1
    Member Array tj1231's Avatar
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    Domestic violence and gun ownership

    I have a friend who was convicted of D.V. for throwing a sandwich at his g.f. a few years ago. He always talks about how he wants to go shooting/hunting with me and how he's "gonna have to buy a rifle". I don't have the heart to tell him that it's not gonna happen due to his conviction.

    As far as I know he can't ever own a firearm again. I am right aren't I? I've talked to his nephews and my wife about it and no one believes me. Apparently they didn't tell him when this all happened about the law.

    I am now depending on you fellow internet lawyers to help me clear this up. I believe its federal law because I can't find anything in the state law about it. Any help would be appreciated!


  2. #2
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    According to Jon Gutmacher's book, the relevant federal law only applies if they were living together.

    The law in question is 18 USC 922(g)(9),

    That said, since this was a misdemeanor conviction and is a few years old, perhaps your friend could petition for expungement?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tj1231 View Post
    I have a friend who was convicted of D.V. for throwing a sandwich at his g.f. a few years ago.
    throwing a sandwich?? sounds a bit harsh for tossing some bread at someone. He should be able to get that removed from his record.
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    Ah, the lovely Lautenberg Amendment...

    From http://www.peaceathomeshelter.org/DV...lautenberg.pdf

    Summary
    The Lautenberg Amendment to the Gun Control Act of 1968 establishes a
    comprehensive regulatory scheme designed to prevent the use of firearms in domestic
    violence offenses. To this end, the Amendment prohibits the possession of firearms
    by persons convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, and, relatedly,
    prohibits the knowing sale or disposition of any firearm or ammunition to a domestic
    violence misdemeanant. Furthermore, the Lautenberg Amendment alters the
    traditional public interest exception to the possession of firearms under the Gun
    Control Act by making the prohibition applicable to any individual convicted of a
    domestic violence misdemeanor, including federal, state, and local law enforcement
    officers.
    The link is worth checking out, if only to get mad about the blatant un-Constitutional nature of the amendment. I despise a spouse abuser as much as (if not more so) then the next guy, but this amendment is absolute crap.
    Last edited by OPFOR; March 4th, 2007 at 11:48 AM.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Depends on what kind of sandwich.
    seriously though, he MAY be able to get it cleared thru the courts. It would probably be an expensive, lengthy process though.
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    IF your friend was a juvenile when he was convicted there might be hope. Otherwise, that Lautenberg amendment violation is one of the things that a background check specifically looks for, so its probably hopeless.

    Since he was convicted of DV I'm going to assume that he was living with his girlfriend right ? The amendment has language in it that recognizes two people living together as living together as a "similarly situated as a spouse," and the fact that they weren't married is irrelevant.

    So, if he was living with her then he is hosed, if not then it shouldnt have been a domestic violence conviction.

    That act is one of the most poorly written,ill considered communist pieces of trash to make it as public law in this country. For one thing, it turns a misdemeanor into a high crime that forces one to forfeit his second amendment rights. Secondly, it uses the force of the law to retroactively apply, which is also another illegal and blatant misuse of a law.
    Personally, I think that the authors of any such ill written law should be hung for treason.

    FWIW...I hate people that abuse other people. This piece of trash law unfairly and illegally punishes people for a misdemeanor for crying out loud...which is no different than getting a jaywalking or a speeding ticket.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Member Array tj1231's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. The Lautenberg is the one that I was thinking of.
    I understand what they were trying to do with the law, and it isn't such a bad thing. The only problem is that DV is really easy to be charged with. For example, the woman in question had a 78 year old man(her father in law) thrown in jail for DV for slamming a door in her face. In total, I believe she has had 4 people thrown in jail!

    For the record, I'm not trying to defend his position in any way, I was just trying to make sure that I understood the law correctly.

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    I'm sorry but your friend's story sounds a little fishy to me. I can't even imagine anyone getting arrested for throwing a sandwich at someone, much less getting a prosecutor to take the case, and then getting a jury to convict. Even the most liberal prosecutors that I've heard of wouldn't touch that case. Are you sure the sandwich wasn't still on the plate?

    Maybe throwing the sandwich was one part of the story, but I can't believe that's all that happened. The slamming the door in someone's face is a little hard to believe too. Sorry, but cops have discretion and above average BS detectors. If someone called me for a sandwich being throw at them or having a door slammed in their face, I'd laugh at them.
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    I work every now and then with domestic violence services. They have trouble enough getting guys convicted who are hitting hard enough to leave bruises and break bones. The Sandwich Story seems really implausible to me.

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    I work every now and then with domestic violence services. They have trouble enough getting guys convicted who are hitting hard enough to leave bruises and break bones.
    That is true in alot of cases it seems.

    Then again I've seen some prosecutions and some convictions that were totally ridiculous.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Agreed with others, the sandwich story ont he surface seems to be missing some meat.
    How could a prosecutor prove that there was harm or even a sandwich thrown unless he jammed it in her face or against her head with force which then would make it a weapon and be DV.

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    Guess it depends. If it was a hotdog, that could put an eye out..
    Sounds pretty ridiculous to me. I know someone that was caught with pot years ago and has a felony on his record, thus cant own a firearm. No violent behavior , no robbery , no sandwhich throwing ( just kidding ). Personally I think its absurd to never be able to own a firearm after being prosecuted for a non-violent crime...
    He is going to write the state capitol . Its been a long time since his conviction..

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    It is about following the rules

    Quote Originally Posted by robere View Post
    I know someone that was caught with pot years ago and has a felony on his record, thus cant own a firearm. No violent behavior , no robbery , no sandwhich throwing ( just kidding ). Personally I think its absurd to never be able to own a firearm after being prosecuted for a non-violent crime...
    Isn't the real issue one of whether or not we can trust an individual to follow the rules. Before smoking pot your friend knew it was an illegal act. He did it anyway. Can we trust him to follow CCW rules?
    Maybe, maybe not.

    Personally, I don't care what people put into their bodies--I'm pretty libertarian on this; smoke tobacco, smoke pot, inject peanut butter, sniff acetone---it makes no difference to me. But, I don't want to issue a CCW to someone who has proven that they will not follow the rules set forth by society. So, anything more than a minor traffic violation and as far as I'm concerned you lose something besides a few dollars.

    I realize that the above runs counter to the plain reading of 2A. But, like it or not the law is what it is and none of us (unless we are legislators or judges) are likely to change it.

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    Member Array tj1231's Avatar
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    Well, the sandwich case didn't go to a jury. His attorney advised him to plead guilty, or it would cost quite a bit to get him off. If you take the gun ownership out of the equation, it was in fact cheaper. Maybe the bread crumbs on her face were evidence enough to charge him lol.

    I know about how hard it is to get convictions if the girl won't help prosecute. I've actually had to testify in one of these cases before. Even though she ended up in the hospital, and I called the cops and testified, he wasn't convicted because she wouldn't testify.

    As far as slamming the door in her face, I don't know the specifics to that one other than she made a public apology to him for lying as part a 12 step program.

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    I Agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by falkon View Post
    throwing a sandwich?? sounds a bit harsh for tossing some bread at someone. He should be able to get that removed from his record.
    They should at least 'hold the mayo'...

    Actually, there has to be more to the story than a sandwich...in the hospital for being hit by a sandwich?

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