Hey Pax! Outstanding site!
This is a discussion on Stance within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Hey Pax! Outstanding site!...
Hey Pax! Outstanding site!
You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
It seems women want to naturally stand upright more , or even lean back. No arguement, leaning forward will work better.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone
The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.
For close quarters or shooting at the range up to 10 yards I use the weaver and I lean forward towards the target. Anything past 10 yards, I use the isosceles. Just my personal preference!
so it's more posture than stance ? from what i'm reading , 6 pounds of firearm at arm's length gets pretty heavy .
my personal prob is i have 50 pounds of gut pulling on those shoulders and back muscles , to be compounded with stickin steel 3 foot in front of me .
weight lifting maybe a couple of barbells , situps this could help the posture . but also bringing the firearm back to the waist and rolling your shoulders repeatedly to sort of self massage them . also as someone else said why do you have to shoot 300 rounds when the first 50 were good ones .
I've been trying to correct my stance as well. It sounds like I'm standing similar to what Lima is. With slow aimed fire it works pretty well for me. The problem is that when I start picking up the pace, I soon find that the recoil has been slowly pushing me back until I'm on my heels. Nose over toes is definitely not normal or comfortable for me, but I have found that it's getting easier and my follow-up shots are improving.
"Learn as if you'll live forever...Live as if you'll die tomorrow" - SOULFLY
Where am I going....and why am I in a hand basket???
IMHO. Perfect stance will be unlikely when the time comes but it is good to practice it. It is also good to practice less than ideal shooting positions and determine how to improve them ahead of time so if it comes you have a quick plan on how to act.
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.
Thanks for the education Pax,
I had the names of the stances mixed up.
I didn't mean to insert myself into a marital issue, but I had to take Paxs advice last year and stop "teaching" my wife to shoot and let her go to a class. Now we shoot together for fun and help each other out.
I was just relating my lesson from trying to make my stance fit my wifes body.
“You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”
― Robert A. Heinlein,
I personally shoot from a modified Weaver stance due to my years in martial arts, as it resembles a fighting stance, which is NOT an Iso stance. Iso more resembles a "horse stance" which sucks for HTH fighting, as any blow from the front or rear will cause you to step or pivot to recover. There is also a very stable stance called a front or box stance which ALSO sucks for fighting as moving out of it is very slow (it is the stance you see the guys holding the boards during board breaks assume). All martial arts know there is a trade off between movement and stability. Target shooting=stability, defensive shooting=movement.
Weight forward (nose over toes) will help with recoil but not necessarily accuracy.
Another reason limatunes may feel more comfortable with the Weaver is that it allows someone with small hands to get more of the off hand wrapped around the frontstrap for support and recoil control.
But definitely never try to teach you wife how do anything. I learned my lesson trying to teach my wife how to golf. She still brings it up 10 years later.
I was looking at pictures on PAX's site and I definitely favor the modified weaver (I'm just bad at remembering the names).
However, this I don't agree with (at least for me and my husband) . I don't mind being instructed at all. I often ask for help, assistance, pointers, even if he's not trying to instruct me. My husband has been doing this for a little while longer than I have. He's seen live combat and lived to tell about it. He's very knowledgeable and a patient teacher (for the most part) and best of all, he's very honest. He wouldn't lie to me to make me feel better only for me to find out the truth later (I guess you could say brutal honesty was a prerequisite for marriage for us.. we just plan do NOT BS each other). He has full permission to instruct me. I also have his permission to question his instruction and check it out to make sure I'm learning everything correctly (as I did in this case). He's not too proud to admit mistakes which I must say have been very few. Usually, when I doubt him and go off to find my answer, I come back with my tail between my legs to say, "I'm sorry, sweety, you were right."But definitely never try to teach you wife how do anything. I learned my lesson trying to teach my wife how to golf. She still brings it up 10 years later.
There are even times I will ask him things and he'll make me find them out myself to make me practice using my own resources. We discuss my findings, sometimes we both learn something new and I get to instruct him.
We're a good team, he's a good instructor and I'll keep him...
I think we'll have to practice stances more outside of the range as well.
A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.
Weaver is more of a "fighting stance" with the body oblique to the target, front arm bent slightly, strong arm almost straight (but bent enough to absorb recoil).
I agree that if she naturally gravitates to a Weaver or even a modified Weaver stance, her husband should not be insisting that she use Isosceles. What's the point? Use what works best. Neither school is exclusively right or wrong.
To quote Samurai Master Mushashi in "The Book of Five Rings" -
"Your walking stance is your fighting stance and your fighting stance is your walking stance"
You should be able to accurately shoot from any position, regardless of how far apart or close together your feet are, which leg is forward or back, etc. That said, and referring back to Mushashi; I've never seen anyone walk about during the course of their normal activities in a Weaver stance.
"He who makes things with his hands is a laborer, he who makes things with his hands and his head is a craftsman, he who makes things with his hands, his head, and his heart is an artist."
That reminds me of the quote by Bruce Lee... "Having no way as way. Having no limitation as limitation."
Okay... range report. I went to the range tonight (just got back) and tried all different stances and I must admit (here I go, walking away with my tail between my legs ) when I did the Iso. with a few modifications, I actually did better.
I called my husband and told him after really working on it and finding something that was comfy, that I thought he was just trying to get me to lean over too far and that's when I felt uncomfortable, but when I modified it a little to my "tastes" I did very well. (I'll have to post pictures of my targets later).
So.... eh hem... hubby was right.. again. (Sorry baby ).