"The founding fathers, could never have foreseen the machine gun"...

"The founding fathers, could never have foreseen the machine gun"...

This is a discussion on "The founding fathers, could never have foreseen the machine gun"... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Dispelling Another Gun Control Myth: Repeating Firearms Predate the Second Amendment The Puckle gun was a British flintlock machinegun invented by James Puckle in 1718. ...

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Thread: "The founding fathers, could never have foreseen the machine gun"...

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    "The founding fathers, could never have foreseen the machine gun"...

    Dispelling Another Gun Control Myth:
    Repeating Firearms Predate the Second Amendment


    The Puckle gun was a British flintlock machinegun invented by James Puckle in 1718. It took a nine-round revolving block, was mounted on a tripod and was designed to be portable and especially to prevent an enemy boarding a ship. An unusual feature was that it fired square bullets.

    http://ccrkba.org/pub/rkba/news/PuckleGun.htm
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    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    "One weapon, intended for use against Christian enemies, fired conventional round bullets, while the second variant, designed to be used against the Muslim Turks, fired square bullets, which were believed to cause more severe and painful wounds than spherical projectiles."

    Boy, would that one get you in PC hot water today!
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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    A better analogy imho is that the founding fathers did have acquaintance with the rifle , which was rare , expensive , and supremely deadly when compared to the common musket of the day . They did not see fit to enumerate that the people may have muskets , rather they stated the people's right to bear arms may not be infringed , This allows for the people to stay current or ahead of the government when it comes to small arms no matter the developments if taken at face value .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    A better analogy imho is that the founding fathers did have acquaintance with the rifle , which was rare , expensive , and supremely deadly when compared to the common musket of the day . They did not see fit to enumerate that the people may have muskets , rather they stated the people's right to bear arms may not be infringed , This allows for the people to stay current or ahead of the government when it comes to small arms no matter the developments if taken at face value .
    Yep

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    .....This allows for the people to stay current or ahead of the government when it comes to small arms no matter the developments if taken at face value .
    Great point!
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    A better analogy imho is that the founding fathers did have acquaintance with the rifle , which was rare , expensive , and supremely deadly when compared to the common musket of the day .
    Your statement actually in a way depends on time and place. Around 1770 and later in the States from Pennsylvania and South rifles were fairly common. Strangely during the same period in the New England area they were extremely rare.

    Yes they were more expensive. The rifle also had about 3 times the range and took from 2 to 3 times as long to reload. One big disadvantage during the AWI is that rifles had no way to mount a bayonet.
    Last edited by rstickle; March 24th, 2007 at 12:52 PM.
    Rick

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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    RS i did not say that the rifle was unknown or unavalable , meerly that it was uncommon as opposed to the common millitary firearm of the day , the musket .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

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    I always used the angle that the government chartered privateers (basically private citizens to attack enemy vessels with their own vessels) Those vessels were armed with cannons. So, private citizens owned the time period's artillery and no one had a problem with it.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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    Member Array Gadfly's Avatar
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    I would think that any member of a "well-regulated militia" would and should possess a state-of-the-art firearm comparable to the weapons of the opposing forces: same/similar rate of fire, caliber, magazine capacity, etc.

    I suspect that a citizens militia armed with semi-auto, lever-action and even bolt action rifles using high-power ammo could still put up a decent resistance. At least until the other side calls in air support, armor and artillery . . . . then it's back in your hole, Rufus!
    Don't forget to bow as the chariot passes.

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    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    considering Ben Franklin was tank testing ship models at the time, I suspect his brain could easily foresee a repeating firearm. He was one smart cookie.
    We can't build or even design a intergalatic starship, but it doesn't mean we can't foresee it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    considering Ben Franklin was tank testing ship models at the time, I suspect his brain could easily foresee a repeating firearm. He was one smart cookie.
    We can't build or even design a intergalatic starship, but it doesn't mean we can't foresee it.
    That's a great way to say it. Of course they could have envisioned machine guns! People were envisioning flying machines hundreds of years before they became a reality, so why wouldn't military people envision machine guns? It would be ridiculous to assume that the idea hadn't crossed their minds.
    eschew obfuscation

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    It doesn't matter if they specifically foresaw machine guns or not. These were all highly intelligent men. To suggest that it never occurred to them that there might be technological advancements in the nature of "arms" is patently ridiculous. They were also highly literate men. If they didn't want to allow the citizenry to keep up with the technological advances they would have said so.

    The antis who put forth this argument are, in essence, saying that the founding fathers were a bunch of semi-literate boobs with no foresight. Such a statement is just plain STUPID!

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    Member Array MD_Willington's Avatar
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    I've heard that previous generations werent just plain dumb, the reason being is they had enough forsight to get us to where we are today, and now we are at a point where we're getting so far ahead, that we're actually becoming dumber than previous generations...

    Most of us can plainly see that we are becoming dumber overall...

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    The Founding Fathers could never have foreseen the Xerox machine or a personally owned laser printer. You mean just anybody can publish a news paper from their home? Puts that pesky First Amendment on thin ice as well...
    Shay Van Vlymen - Instructor Tactical Response

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    I believe that the 2A makes it clear that the Militia, all of us, are to have access to the same weaponry that the standing Army has access to. That way, it is an even field of battle when the time comes that the people need to throw out the tyrants and start anew.

    I believe that the Founding Fathers understood this much better than any foolish "scholars" of today, who have never been oppressed in their self important lives, could ever understand it.
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