Silencers for HD, revisited

This is a discussion on Silencers for HD, revisited within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Some time back, a thread was started about suppressed weapons for home defense. IIRC, the general consensus was that it was a bad idea, and ...

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Thread: Silencers for HD, revisited

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    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    Silencers for HD, revisited

    Some time back, a thread was started about suppressed weapons for home defense. IIRC, the general consensus was that it was a bad idea, and would possibly give the prosecutor extra ammo to use against you.

    On Personal Defense TV, they actually recommended it if your state allowed them, especially if you were planning on using a light semi-auto rifle, the .223 would far excide the db level that would cause permanent hearing damage(if fired inside), they were not using completely silenced weapons, but more in the line of suppressed, major reductions in the db level.

    Episode 12
    Airs The Week Of: March 19, 2007
    This week, Tom visits Cory Trapp at Gunsite to tackle many of the urban legends about machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, birdshot, and silencers for personal defense. Do you have a standard AR-15 that you want optimized for personal defense? If so, watch as Dick Metcalf uses TAPCO's easy-to-install AR-15 accessories to create what he calls a "perfect" home defense/family "Survival Tool." One day, a stranger WILL knock on your door during the night. In this week's "Action Plan," Massad Ayoob demonstrates the right way and the wrong way to handle this situation. Finally, in a previous "Skills Drill," Clint Smith demonstrated how to use a flashlight with the Weaver stance. In this week's drill Clint shows the changes necessary to make a flashlight work with the isosceles stance.
    What do you guys think, I don't want to give the prosecutor anything extra to influence the decision to "grand jury" my case, but I like the idea of me and mine being able to hear normally afterwards.


    Edit to add:
    Another benefit was eliminating all the flash, great for use with red dot sighting systems..
    Last edited by 4my sons; March 24th, 2007 at 06:32 PM. Reason: spelling
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
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    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4my son View Post
    Some time back, a thread was started about suppressed weapons for home defense. IIRC, the general consensus was that it was a bad idea, and would possibly give the prosecutor extra ammo to use against you.

    On Personal Defense TV, they actually recommended it if your state allowed them, especially if you were planning on using a light semi-auto rifle, the .223 would far excide the db level that would cause permanent hearing damage(if fired inside), they were not using completely silenced weapons, but more in the line of suppressed, major reductions in the db level.



    What do you guys think, I don't want to give the prosecutor anything extra to influence the decision to "grand jury" my case, but I like the idea of me and mine being able to hear normally afterwards.


    Edit to add:
    Another benefit was eliminating all the flash, great for use with red dot sighting systems..
    Hard to silence a 12 GA

    BTW where do you get Personal Defense TV? (since we're both in the same general vicinity). Are you on Comcast?
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    Senior Member Array Weeg's Avatar
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    May be surprised how much interiors (in certain rooms, etc) absorb a the sound of s shot...Often sounds like popping milk carton like we did in grade school



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    As far as hurting your case in court, the other side will twist any, and every, aspect of what you did and how you did it, no matter what. I would think that a legal, stamped suppressor would be no more harmful to your case than the ammunition you used or the firearm you shot it from. Granted, it would be ONE MORE thing for them to create doubt and distrust toward you amongst the jurors with, but, whatever... (You could say you used a suppressor to protect EVERYONE's hearing - your's, your family's, and the BG's. ) I think that the fact that you would call 911 ASAP pretty much takes the wind out of the sails of saying you were trying to be sneaky by having used a suppressor when you defended yourself.

    A suppressor will add several inches to the length of a pistol, and several more than that to the length of a rifle, making it something that you will have to do some extra practice and training with to be able to use it effectively and safely. Is it worth turning that, at least, 26" rifle into about a 38" rifle and making it that much harder to get around inside your house with? That's the main bad point that I can think of.

    Yep, being able to see after the first shot is fired might be even more of a bonus than being able to hear a week after the first shot is fired.


    My .02

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    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzz View Post
    Is it worth turning that, at least, 26" rifle into about a 38" rifle and making it that much harder to get around inside your house with? That's the main bad point that I can think of.
    You must not have used the more recent generations of .223 and .308 suppressors out there. 8" or less is standard for .223 now.

    My Gemtech HVT that I'm still waiting on the damn ATF for is 8.5" and it's built for .308.

    It's going to live on my HK-51, upping the OAL to 29" or so with the collapsible.
    Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.

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    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    It would surely live on a short barreled rifle, with a folder. Something to look at, does anyone have the link to a company that makes the suppressor built into the barrel, it makes the barrel look like a heavy snipers barrel, but does not add much length either.

    Wed nights on the Outdoor Channel, there is a 2-1/2 hour block of gun shows. Starts at 8:00. I get it on Dish Network. Midway USA's night on the range.

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    8:30 PM: Shooting Gallery presented by Crimson Trace
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    10:00 PM: American Rifleman Television
    10:30 PM: Personal Defense TV
    Shooting USA has a lot of good tips and techniques to practice for real life. reloading, shooting on the move etc..
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
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    While it's possible that opposing counsel will paint you as a bloodthirtsy assassin-wannabe for using a suppressed weapon in a SD shooting....I think the benefits (protect hearing in an enclosed space, slightly reduced recoil due to the extra weight, and reduced muzzle flash/blast) are valid reasons to get one and employ it as a SD weapon. Let's face it, you might have time to grab the weapon in a HD/SD situation, but you might not have to or the wherewithall to grab hearing muffs and/or plugs.

    In the event that you do have to use it for SD, ensure your defense counsel is 125% aware of your reasons for having it and use those arguments in court if you ever go to court.
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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Would it even come up in states with Castle Doctrine? I don't see how it could be an issue, but that probably doesn't mean much to attorneys.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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    My experience with suppressors in not in the HD arena, but I am a fan none-the-less. Yes, they make the rifle a bit less "handy" in tight quarters, but they offer a lot in return. As a "lone defender" they might lose some utility, but for partner/team based scenarios, for protecting everyone’s hearing and night vision, for maintaining some semblance of stealth when getting rid of guard/feral dogs... OK, maybe that last one REALLY doesn't apply to HD, but you get the idea. :)
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    I'm with OPFOR again, there is a time and place for them. For HD purposes, I really dont think its a needed item at all.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by p8riot View Post
    Hard to silence a 12 GA...


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    Quote Originally Posted by SammyIamToday View Post
    Would it even come up in states with Castle Doctrine? I don't see how it could be an issue, but that probably doesn't mean much to attorneys.
    Remember, just because it is the Law does not mean some hungry prosecutor in a liberal county decides not to consider it a SD case and try to railroad you.
    I'd go for electronic muffs if you have the time.
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    Hmmm...how well do they work on overbored, ported barrels? Will they handle 3-1/2" magnums?

    Nah, I like the thought that my Mossberg also serves as a flashbang in case the first shot misses.

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    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    The sound and muzzle flash may encourage the BG or BGs who have not yet been hit to seek fame and fortune elsewhere. It also won't help their aim.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

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    WOW.

    Good article.

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