Just wanted to asks you 9mm shooters a question about whats the best weight bullet to use for self defence? You can read all day on the net, what is the best to use. I here the 115gr +P is #one. Then I here, dont use the 147gr, its junk. The 125gr is the maxs you would want to use. Some reports,are from real shootings, some from jell blocks. No one will agree what is the best weight and FPS needed. What do u think about this, out of a 3in barrel? Just want to know what you think. Thanks
Just a sugestion that someone else gave me when i asked the same question (i carry a .40 though) ask a local officer. Not only can u get an idea but if u ever end up in court its hard to convict u (on bullet choice anyway) if u use what the cops use........ FYI i choose the Winchester Ranger 180gr SXT which is law enforcement ammo (in .40) iam sure they make it in 9mm as well & it shoots real good too!!
I think anywhere in the 115gr. to 127 gr. +P or +P+ loading is ideal. I remember reading about failures to stop with the 147gr. loads in the years past. However, I am seeing that a growing number of people are begining to carry them again...
I personally carry Remington Golden Saber +P 124 gr HPs
I like 124 gr. in 9mm but wouldn't feel poorly about using lighter or heavier. As for the cop thing, there might be 1 or 2 NYPD officers carrying what I use. :wink:
I use the 124 Gr. +P speer HP bullet...
Try a few and see which one works the best for you.
Defensive ammo from any of the major manufacturers (Federal, Winchester, Hornady, Cor-bon, etc.) will be fine, just find the one that you and your gun like the best.
Personally, if my pistol will eat it without a problem, I don't care whose name is on the box. My last batch of carry ammo was 115gr. Remington Golden-Sabers. Right now I'm carrying 147gr. Hornady (because I got like 8 boxes for free from work).
Short answer: pick the one bullet that works flawlessly in your specific gun, that you can handle and manage, then sleep well at night.
Thoughts on bullets. Study after study after study ... each of which has certain premises and preconceptions. None of which changes the fact that there are far too many variables to adequately test, given the differing performance implications of striking fat, muscle, bone, organs, being knocked off-line or not, the design of the bullet, the speed of the bullet, the relative expansion (or lack thereof). Plenty of folks die on battlefields around the world via one shot kills; plenty of madmen keep coming when peppered with a dozen hits in urban warfare.
What you can do: pick the ammo that works best in your specific gun with your specific shooting characteristics, then hope for the best. 'Cause, at the end of the day, if you can't bring that muzzle back on-target quickly enough, if you can't strike accurately, if you can't or won't carry the thing 24x7, then you're just as likely to get caught unable to perform when the chips are down.
What I have done, with my CZ P01 9mm: select the most reliable round I can find (DoubleTap 124gr +P or Federal Hydrashok Tactical 124gr +P+) that also exceeds 400 ft-lbs muzzle force and ~1150 fps; shoot the ammo through my specific gun until I'm convinced it's flawless; test the ammo on an actual hunk of meat (ie, a turkey, ham or side of beef hanging from a branch in the field) until I'm convinced it performs well. Haven't had to fire on a human, but I'm reasonably assured that my combination will have similar effect as on a side of beef. It's hard to do much more.
As for relative importance of equipment, some suggest that mindset, preparedness and reactions are 90% of any fight. I'd be willing to bet it's far higher than that, on average. Still, on any carry weapon, I'd prefer a reliable package over anything. Hence, my selection of only four carry pieces ever: a S&W .38 revolver; a CZ P01 9mm; a Browning BDM 9mm; a KelTec P3AT 380ACP. All have been exceedingly reliable and capable. The P3AT's on the low end of performance, but it's a backup and I'd hate to be shot with it myself.
I prefer 115-124gr, as fast as I can get them (Corbon/Hornady- generally). Any bullet can kill, but regardless of weight, higher velocity= greater chance of expansion. I just haven't found any 1200fps 147grain loads.:wink: :gah:
You can never be guaranteed expansion in humans that are shot.
You can bet on penetration getting to vital organs and getting them to bleed with the heavier bullets.
I stay with the heaviest bullet commerically and readily available in 9mm. My preference runs to Win Ranger 147's. If they expand, they still dig deeper than the lighter loads by a good margin.
Used to be true that the 147's were lacking in any reliable expansion years ago, but thats all changed in the last 10 years, though people still have this aversion to the old data still being true today where the 147's are concerned, even in the face of evidence on the street with stops with the better 147 loadings used by LE's.
We have a winner.
Originally Posted by ccw9mm
In my 9mm, the 147grain bullets shoot low and the 115grain shoot POA so I use those. Generally it is Remington in 9mm that I use.
Hits are the only thing that counts, next penetration and lastly bullet design IMHO. :bier:
I agree with Brownie I prefer 147 grain bullets fpr sd.Anything that
mimics a 45 works for me as I like slow speeds in 9mm for sd.
I was a confirmed high speed light weight 9mm bullets type for decades. Thats when I was in an energy dump mindset based on numbers reported by gun rags, etc.
In the last 7-8 years, I've come to realize that you can't rely on expansion in bullets, and the makers know that, so they push em faster to give them better odds at expansion as well as making the jackets thinner [ which translated to core seperation and the formation of bonded core bullets as a direct result ].
After getting the medical training for SAR, I understand what shuts the body down. Leaking from internally deep organs from multiple sources [ a few to several organs from rds in them ], creating more rapid blood pressure loss, thus getting the body to react in a way that hinders the brains capacity to function normally is one of the surest ways to end the perps actions.
The heavier bullets in every caliber will dig deeper normally. Digging deep, with any kind of expansion, is much more reliable at getting those who are trying to harm us to stop those actions in the least amount of time if we do our part and put em into organs.
I can't rely on expansion of any pistol bullet in humans, the coroners reports verify this most of the time by reporting that they can't tell the difference by the wound channel if the bullet expanded or not until they find the bullet. They also report that most bullets don't expand or expand very little most of the time from their observations.
I now prefer deeper penetration, rely on that to occur more often by using heavier bullets in the respective calibers I carry and not using +P ammo in any caliber. If the bullet expands some, it's a bonus on top of penetration. If the bullet does not expand, I got to the organs more reliably than using lighter bullets in the same calibers.
The faster the bullet is traveling, the faster it normally opens, the sooner it stops in the perp, and in all likilhood may not take out that organ it could have had it traveled further.
It's my own opinion, based on many variables. One thing to remember is that the good old 45acp ball stopped a lot of people fast for decades and continues to do so. It moves slower and expands little, but it gets the job done then and now.
When hunting big game, they don't use light fast bullets but just the opposite. They need penetration to kill, not expansion and they use bullets that guarantee [ from past experiences in the field ] that they get enough penetration, not relying on expansion.
Whats good for big dangerous game [ big and slower bullets ] and has been good on the streets for a long time in the slow 230 gr 45acp's is still good today for my tastes. Place em in the organs with a round that gets deep enough reliably and you are going to get results.
I am new to the forum and new to 9mm. I am impressed with the bullestic that I have research. I am using 115 gr jhp Remington. It has a deep penatration and expands to twice it's size. It is not +P since I am using a small Kel Tec PF-9.
I am using 115 gr jhp Remington. It has a deep penatration
What do you consider deep penetration, and more importantly perhaps, what do you consider enough penetration?