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9mm Bullets

3K views 25 replies 17 participants last post by  TStorm 
#1 ·
Just wanted to asks you 9mm shooters a question about whats the best weight bullet to use for self defence? You can read all day on the net, what is the best to use. I here the 115gr +P is #one. Then I here, dont use the 147gr, its junk. The 125gr is the maxs you would want to use. Some reports,are from real shootings, some from jell blocks. No one will agree what is the best weight and FPS needed. What do u think about this, out of a 3in barrel? Just want to know what you think. Thanks
 
#2 ·
Just a sugestion that someone else gave me when i asked the same question (i carry a .40 though) ask a local officer. Not only can u get an idea but if u ever end up in court its hard to convict u (on bullet choice anyway) if u use what the cops use........ FYI i choose the Winchester Ranger 180gr SXT which is law enforcement ammo (in .40) iam sure they make it in 9mm as well & it shoots real good too!!
 
#3 · (Edited)
I think anywhere in the 115gr. to 127 gr. +P or +P+ loading is ideal. I remember reading about failures to stop with the 147gr. loads in the years past. However, I am seeing that a growing number of people are begining to carry them again...

I personally carry Remington Golden Saber +P 124 gr HPs
 
#4 ·
I like 124 gr. in 9mm but wouldn't feel poorly about using lighter or heavier. As for the cop thing, there might be 1 or 2 NYPD officers carrying what I use. :wink:
 
#6 ·
Try a few and see which one works the best for you.

Defensive ammo from any of the major manufacturers (Federal, Winchester, Hornady, Cor-bon, etc.) will be fine, just find the one that you and your gun like the best.

Personally, if my pistol will eat it without a problem, I don't care whose name is on the box. My last batch of carry ammo was 115gr. Remington Golden-Sabers. Right now I'm carrying 147gr. Hornady (because I got like 8 boxes for free from work).
 
#8 ·
Short answer: pick the one bullet that works flawlessly in your specific gun, that you can handle and manage, then sleep well at night.

Thoughts on bullets. Study after study after study ... each of which has certain premises and preconceptions. None of which changes the fact that there are far too many variables to adequately test, given the differing performance implications of striking fat, muscle, bone, organs, being knocked off-line or not, the design of the bullet, the speed of the bullet, the relative expansion (or lack thereof). Plenty of folks die on battlefields around the world via one shot kills; plenty of madmen keep coming when peppered with a dozen hits in urban warfare.

What you can do: pick the ammo that works best in your specific gun with your specific shooting characteristics, then hope for the best. 'Cause, at the end of the day, if you can't bring that muzzle back on-target quickly enough, if you can't strike accurately, if you can't or won't carry the thing 24x7, then you're just as likely to get caught unable to perform when the chips are down.

What I have done, with my CZ P01 9mm: select the most reliable round I can find (DoubleTap 124gr +P or Federal Hydrashok Tactical 124gr +P+) that also exceeds 400 ft-lbs muzzle force and ~1150 fps; shoot the ammo through my specific gun until I'm convinced it's flawless; test the ammo on an actual hunk of meat (ie, a turkey, ham or side of beef hanging from a branch in the field) until I'm convinced it performs well. Haven't had to fire on a human, but I'm reasonably assured that my combination will have similar effect as on a side of beef. It's hard to do much more.

As for relative importance of equipment, some suggest that mindset, preparedness and reactions are 90% of any fight. I'd be willing to bet it's far higher than that, on average. Still, on any carry weapon, I'd prefer a reliable package over anything. Hence, my selection of only four carry pieces ever: a S&W .38 revolver; a CZ P01 9mm; a Browning BDM 9mm; a KelTec P3AT 380ACP. All have been exceedingly reliable and capable. The P3AT's on the low end of performance, but it's a backup and I'd hate to be shot with it myself.
 
#11 ·
Short answer: pick the one bullet that works flawlessly in your specific gun, that you can handle and manage, then sleep well at night.
We have a winner.

In my 9mm, the 147grain bullets shoot low and the 115grain shoot POA so I use those. Generally it is Remington in 9mm that I use.

Hits are the only thing that counts, next penetration and lastly bullet design IMHO. :bier:
 
#10 ·
You can never be guaranteed expansion in humans that are shot.

You can bet on penetration getting to vital organs and getting them to bleed with the heavier bullets.

I stay with the heaviest bullet commerically and readily available in 9mm. My preference runs to Win Ranger 147's. If they expand, they still dig deeper than the lighter loads by a good margin.

Used to be true that the 147's were lacking in any reliable expansion years ago, but thats all changed in the last 10 years, though people still have this aversion to the old data still being true today where the 147's are concerned, even in the face of evidence on the street with stops with the better 147 loadings used by LE's.

Brownie
 
#13 ·
I was a confirmed high speed light weight 9mm bullets type for decades. Thats when I was in an energy dump mindset based on numbers reported by gun rags, etc.

In the last 7-8 years, I've come to realize that you can't rely on expansion in bullets, and the makers know that, so they push em faster to give them better odds at expansion as well as making the jackets thinner [ which translated to core seperation and the formation of bonded core bullets as a direct result ].

After getting the medical training for SAR, I understand what shuts the body down. Leaking from internally deep organs from multiple sources [ a few to several organs from rds in them ], creating more rapid blood pressure loss, thus getting the body to react in a way that hinders the brains capacity to function normally is one of the surest ways to end the perps actions.

The heavier bullets in every caliber will dig deeper normally. Digging deep, with any kind of expansion, is much more reliable at getting those who are trying to harm us to stop those actions in the least amount of time if we do our part and put em into organs.

I can't rely on expansion of any pistol bullet in humans, the coroners reports verify this most of the time by reporting that they can't tell the difference by the wound channel if the bullet expanded or not until they find the bullet. They also report that most bullets don't expand or expand very little most of the time from their observations.

I now prefer deeper penetration, rely on that to occur more often by using heavier bullets in the respective calibers I carry and not using +P ammo in any caliber. If the bullet expands some, it's a bonus on top of penetration. If the bullet does not expand, I got to the organs more reliably than using lighter bullets in the same calibers.

The faster the bullet is traveling, the faster it normally opens, the sooner it stops in the perp, and in all likilhood may not take out that organ it could have had it traveled further.

It's my own opinion, based on many variables. One thing to remember is that the good old 45acp ball stopped a lot of people fast for decades and continues to do so. It moves slower and expands little, but it gets the job done then and now.

When hunting big game, they don't use light fast bullets but just the opposite. They need penetration to kill, not expansion and they use bullets that guarantee [ from past experiences in the field ] that they get enough penetration, not relying on expansion.

Whats good for big dangerous game [ big and slower bullets ] and has been good on the streets for a long time in the slow 230 gr 45acp's is still good today for my tastes. Place em in the organs with a round that gets deep enough reliably and you are going to get results.

Brownie
 
#18 ·
#20 ·
I agree that ballistic jelly and wet newspapers...etc, don't count for acurate results in human tissue and whatever surrounds it. Most of the evil gunshot wounds I've seen at the Trauma Center I work at come from .22's. I've been a nurse for a couple years and the 9mm's (and similar calibers) seem to go through and through, unless they hit something vital most patients are sent home that day. If they hit bone they go through it, instead of ricochetting off of it like a
.22 does. I saw a guy shot in the thigh with a .22 that they found the bullet right next to his Aorta 1/2 a cm from his heart. But honestly BG's seem to shoot each other with FMJ wal-mart practice ammo, I don't think they actually research what ammo to buy, they just buy whatever is cheap. I've only seen one fully expanded bullet and it was a .40 S&W shot to the stomach of a BG by a LEO. The BG was in a world of hurt. It turned his bowls into swiss cheese. It only took the one shot to drop him. I honestly just usually buy Hydra-Shoks. I've never had a jam while practicing with them and the recoil doesn't feel much different from practice ammo. They also seem reasonably priced and popular.
 
#22 ·
. I've been a nurse for a couple years and the 9mm's (and similar calibers) seem to go through and through, unless they hit something vital most patients are sent home that day. .
Yeah, 9mm ball, as our soldiers are discovering, sucks.:blink: This is why "effective" gang-shootings are usually mag-dumps to the core body. Too many through-n-through holes to compensate for.....:gah:
 
#23 ·
Agreed. You pays your money, you takes your chances. I also agree that shot placement is the decisive factor. You'll have to work reeeeaally hard to make me a 147 convert, though!

Rob, Like you say, I think as long as you put em where it counts, and can get damage on organs with the bullet you choose to carry, you'll stand about as good a chance as anyone myself.

I just think too many people put the big emphasis on expansion when the chances of that expansion happening are not high historically. Certainly not the type of expansion seen in gel testing and thrown up as evidence that someones bullet is better than anothers as a sales point.

Brownie
 
#24 ·
I carry Speer GDHP +P in 124gr. Those were the best performing out of my particular handgun. They were easy for me to shoot, accurate, and the performance is just what the doctor ordered.

Shoot a bunch of different weights and brands. Find which performs best in your piece and then go from there.
 
#25 ·
gddyup;

A good load in the GDHP 124 grain. Not sure you'll get the same penetration as the standard loading in that bullet, but it's a good choice just the same.

OT: I used to date a girl whose father owned the Derry News back in the 60's and 70's. That area must be getting well developed from the horse country it was when I hung in that area as a teenager.

Brownie
 
#26 ·
I alternate between Hornady TAP 147gr and Speer 124. One of the things that got my attention was that you get 25 rounds in the TAP and 20 in most others for about the same price. I was ammo testing and breaking in my Kahr PM9 with full-power PD ammo. My Kahr eats both with no FTF or FTEs.

2 other questions in the same thread.....

1. What's the opinion on the worth of the nickel(?) case w/ TAP?

2. What's the current thoughts on weight and overpenetration?
 
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