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My first Colt

3K views 17 replies 14 participants last post by  Kilowatt3 
#1 ·
She ain't no show piece, but when I first saw it, it called to me.

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Police Positive 38 Special, according to Colt's serial number lookup dating to 1909. It's certainly had a rough life. The nickle is flaking, particularly on the cylinder. It has some rust here and there, again mostly in the cylinder. But the trigger feels great, the bore is clean, and lock up is nice and tight. A previous owner bobbed the hammer, but the guy I bought it from replaced it. I'm excited to get it to the range, but it won't get shot much. I mostly wanted it to pair up with the one my dad has that's blued.

So with all that said, what can or should I do to clean it up or for maintenance? I'd like to clean up the rust, but I don't want to lose any more of the finish than I have to. Would it be worth pulling the side plate to inspect, clean up, and oil?
 
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#3 ·
Congrats! Just a warning though, old Colts can be addictive and costly!
 
#4 ·
Nice piece!
Mitigate the rust, and otherwise preserve it well. When the nickle plating is flaking, the bond has been compromised. Don't use any copper solvents on the pistol as that will attack the underlying copper plating of the nickle finish. You could try some 0000 steel wool and CLP or Colgate toothpaste on the rust in inconspicuous areas.
 
#5 ·
I'm excited to get it to the range, but it won't get shot much. I mostly wanted it to pair up with the one my dad has that's blued.

So with all that said, what can or should I do to clean it up or for maintenance? I'd like to clean up the rust, but I don't want to lose any more of the finish than I have to. Would it be worth pulling the side plate to inspect, clean up, and oil?
IMO, that finish is in fairly bad shape. Depends if you want to retain it's condition. IMO, whatever "patina" value it might have had is getting lost as it flakes away.

In my own case ...

If intended as a shooter, I'd give Robar a call, to see what they could do in order to bring it back to pristine, like-new type condition. I'm sure a full internal/external NP3 treatment would be stunning.

If intended as a "safe queen" with an eye toward ever-increasing values, I'd have to question whether a flaking example could ever achieve that. As I don't know much about old Colts and such conditions as they relate to values, I don't have much to offer here. I might try finding a solid old-school Colt gunsmith who'd be willing to massage it back to health yet who valued keeping the finish as untouched as possible while retaining the greater part of the value it might have.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Threads with titles such as this are what catches my eye. The "latest and greatest" handguns from the current manufacturers catalogs may be more practical (slightly) but they aren't as inspiring to me as the oldies.

Colt once produced both the Police Positive and the Police Positive Special, the second mentioned model being the same basic sized frame as the first except the Police Positive Special had a lengthened frame and cylinder in order to accept cartridges like the .32-20 and, most commonly, the .38 Special. The shorter-framed Police Positive handled cartridges like the .22 rim fire, .32 Colt New Police (actually the .32 S&W Long), and the .38 Colt New Police (actually .38 S&W). Both these New Police cartridges replaced the earlier Colt developed .32 Long Colt and .38 Short Colt which faded away.

In the early 20th century, Colt didn't like to be seen to have to chamber the cartridges of Smith & Wesson development, which ultimately won out in the marketplace over its own similar cartridges so Colt cleverly changed the bullet shape a bit all while using the same cartridge case dimensions developed by Smith & Wesson and termed them the Colt New Police cartridges. The .38 Special was a Smith & Wesson proprietary development, introduced in 1899. Colt originally changed the 158 grain round nose lead bullet to a 158 grain flat nose lead bullet and called it the .38 Colt Special. Same cartridge. To make things more confusing, Smith & Wesson developed the .38 Special simply by lengthening the considerably older .38 Long Colt cartridge.

Oh, and Smith & Wesson chose to pretty well ignore Colt cartridges too. In addition to messin' with the .38 Long Colt, Smith & Wesson developed it's own line of .32 and .38 cartridges, which won't chamber in the Colt guns. The Smith & Wesson .32 and .38 cartridges won out in the marketplace and are still being produced while the Colt .32 and .38 cartridges are effectively obsolete. Additionally, Smith & Wesson rarely chambered the .45 Colt in its large-frame revolvers in the later 19th century and first half of the 20th century preferring to provide their revolvers for a succession of .44 cartridges of Smith & Wesson's own development: the .44 American, .44 Russian, .44 Special, and much later, the .44 Magnum. Both companies made use of Winchester's .44 WCF, otherwise known as .44-40.

Meanwhile, back to the Colt ranch: After World War II, Colt discontinued the short-framed Police Positive, dropped the "Special" off of the Police Positive Special so that the model with the lengthened frame and cylinder became the Police Positive, no matter which of several .22, .32, or .38 caliber cartridges it chambered.

The "Positive" in the model name was the way Colt designated and promoted it's "Positive Lock" feature, a very effective internal safety feature that protected against the revolver firing if dropped onto the hammer. Colt's Positive Lock was more advanced and more foolproof than Smith & Wesson's early efforts to provide for safe revolvers if dropped. Smith & Wesson ended up adopting a somewhat similar system but the feature wasn't introduced in their revolvers until World War II.

Anyway Ianthin, yours is a Police Positive Special and it's cool! It's not so obsolete as many would believe. The famous and still-popular Detective Special shares the same frame size and internals and was a sub-model derived right off of the Police Positive Special in the 1920s. Many consider the Detective Special to be the very best .38 Special snub-nosed revolver of all time. The Police Positive Special may be considered to be a Detective Special with a 4-inch barrel though actually the Police Positive came first by nearly 20 years.

I like to consider the possibilities. One could do a lot worse than have a 4-inch "Detective Special" for personal defense. The 4-inch Police Positive Special is compact yet the longer barrel milks some extra performance out of the ammunition. An afternoon at the range with a couple boxes of target wadcutters and the .38 Special chambered Police Positive Special in any of its variations will provide some eye-opening accuracy at any reasonable handgun range and a really good time.

They're sturdy, plucky revolvers too. Don't do this at home kiddies but I have deliberately test-fired an early Police Positive Special with +P 158 grain lead SWC .38 Special factory ammunition and it appeared non the worse for the wear. I still have it, shoot it on occasion and it's fine. It's not something I'd make a habit of doing but the revolver could be pressed into service with such ammunition in a pinch.

Two blued Police Positive Specials live here, one from 1914 and one from 1921. The 1914 gun is slightly better looking and a bit tighter. So, I did the +P test in the rattier 1921 gun. The ammunition didn't appear to further loosen it. The early Police Positive and Police Positive Special revolvers have a more narrow grip frame which was changed to a wider style in the mid-1920s. These early guns aren't quite as pleasant with heavier .38 Special loads, at least not for me, as the later models with the wider (or should I say deeper) grip frame.

The fact that the ancient and smallish Police Positive Special can withstand being fired with this particular +P load may say something about the strength Colt built into the design back then or it may say much about the fact that +P .38 Special ammuntion isn't as fearsome as its internet forum reputation suggests. Now I wouldn't shoot Buffalo Bore or Underwood +P factory loads in one of these old guns, nor abuse them with some of my own heavily handloaded concoctions but I'd have no trepidation about shooting the usual run of "Fedingchesterady" .38 Special +P ammunition in a Police Positive Special if that was the only revolver I had and I had an emergency need to shoot it.

This doesn't mean that anyone else should try it.

Your gun is kinda ratty like mine are but it's still a winsome old Colt. A look at the photos would seem to indicate a re-polish and re-nickel finish job. The roll markings and Colt logo are partially obliterated; definitely not Colt factory finish workmanship in 1909. No matter. It's still an example of a gun that's been around for over a century, was someone's pride and joy back when, served to provide a measure of security, served to be the basis of someone's notion of a custom finish and it lived to tell about it all. Well, tell about it as well as a mute ol' Colt revolver can.

Just keep it clean and protected with a coat of preservative grease, like RIG and it'll "hold what it's got" with regard to remaining finish.

It still looks like it wants to shoot.


Here are my two Colt Police Positive Special .38 Special revolvers, the 1914 gun on bottom and the 1921 gun on top.


A slightly better photo of the other side of the 1914 gun. Too much glare obscures the barrel markings. I need to take a better photo.


For comparison purposes, here's a 1913 Police Positive .32 with its shorter frame and cylinder.



Here's the style of logo that is suppose to adorn the side plate of a Colt revolver of the era. This was only used between about 1908 and 1912, making it one of the less common variations of the "Rampant Colt" logo. This one is off of a Colt New Service Model 1909.


Here's the largest Colt double-action revolver, the New Service (this one's the military contract Model 1909 variant) chambered for .45 Colt and the very smallest Colt double-action revolver with swing-out cylinder, the Colt New Pocket, chambered for the obsolete .32 Long Colt. This revolver is slightly more of a runt than a J-Frame Smith & Wesson. There's a .22 Long Rifle cartridge shown for comparison.

These two revolvers were only made five years apart from each other.

Lots of Colt guns live here, both trash and treasures. I can do ratty old Colts and be enthused about it!
 
#8 ·
She ain't no show piece, but when I first saw it, it called to me.
Your guns talk to you too? Whew, I was starting to think something was wrong with me. :smile:
But seriously though: congratulations!
 
#10 ·
I'd like to ask a question about this situation. If one were to find an old Colt, which had already been refinished, and the finish was deteriorating badly. Say with pitting, rust, or a flaking nickle plating. And if the value wasn't high, but the gun was mechanically ok. If you wanted to keep it as a shooter, would it be considered ok to have it stripped and refinished?
 
#11 ·
First, Thanks Bryan for all the details and backstory of these guns. It's that stuff that really draws me to older, used guns. Several in my current collection are old police guns of one variety or another. Whether it's a Sig P6, my Beretta 92S Italian police, or my Dads Police Positive 38 that was originally the sidearm of a Louisville KY police officer in the early 20th century, I love to imagine the stories it could tell and things it had seen. Dad also has an old Spanish made Colt clone in .32 that, as the story goes, my great grandfather who was a preacher talked a burglar off of when he broke into their house in the 40's. Plus, knowing the history of such a product gives such a better understanding of how we got where we are today.

I had a hunch that the finish may not be original. It just doesn't seem to be of the quality I would expect, plus as you noticed the roll marks and logo look like they were pretty worn before the finish was applied. Here's a better shot of the badly worn Colt logo.

Revolver Starting pistol


I'm not too concerned about resale value or such. It will be generations before these guns are scarce enough for it to have the value something like a Python does now. Honestly, my dad's probably doesn't hold much value either. When it was in the possession of my uncle in the 70's, he had it reblued and replaced the original grips with some blue and black pearl ones. This one will get shot occasionally, and then cleaned and returned to the safe. Maybe down the road when the budget allows, I'll have it gone through professionally and refinished. But for now, it's just a cool old gun.
 
#12 ·
Well I like your Colt, Ianthin. On a "positive" note, whoever did the polish work on your Police Positive Special appeared to polish the side plate and frame together. The single most unsightly aspect of amateur polish work exhibited on Colt or Smith & Wesson revolvers is the wretched unsightly seam of the side plate. Grand Canyon-sized side plate seams and "egged" screw holes are always a sign of nitwit gunsmithing at work. The loss of the various roll markings on the Colt guns of this era might be forgiven as they were very precise, and somewhat shallow and delicately applied. There are folks out there who can restore roll markings but I've not researched it or priced such work.

It's a crime to attempt to restore a gun with even a modicum of original finish in my opinion. Once "the Rubicon's been crossed" so to speak and the gun is acquired as refinished, the surfaces are past the point of no return with regards to factory original and one may do whatever he likes that he considers to be tasteful. I like your Colt as is and it has "good bones" for some sort of restoration.
 
#15 ·
She ain't no show piece, but when I first saw it, it called to me.

So with all that said, what can or should I do to clean it up or for maintenance? I'd like to clean up the rust, but I don't want to lose any more of the finish than I have to. Would it be worth pulling the side plate to inspect, clean up, and oil?

Yes, she is definitely a show piece. Gun enthusiasts love older guns with character.
As for interior cleaning, find a reputable gunsmith to take care of it. Finish wise, Blue Wonder.



When I acquired my WW I 1911, the safety lever wouldn't budge. The gunsmith disassembled, thoroughly cleaned it for $35. Said if I ever wanted to sell it he would give his left testicle and his first two grand-kids for it.

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#16 ·
Nice. If you're going to be shooting it test this:

UNLOADED (of course) keep your finger off the trigger and bring the hammer back to full cock, then see if you can push the hammer forward with your thumb. You should not be able to move it forward. If it doesn't hold up to strong pressure, like 20 pounds or more, it's unstable and you want to have a revolver familiar gunsmith take a look at it.
 
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#17 ·
Clean and shiny!

I spent the better part of the day doing a thorough detail strip and clean. Spent over an hour with a brass brush and a pick just cleaning off lead, rust, and other dirt out of all the externals. Once I removed the side plate, I was a bit surprised to see that everything was pretty clean. Little more than surface rust on a few pieces, but not bad at all.

Still life photography Black-and-white Photography Pruning shears Metal


So after cleaning up all the internals, I moved on to working on the finish again. Some Mothers shined it right up.

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The only issue I found with it functionally is the pin that locks into the cylinder latch was bent slightly, and I had to try several positions before it would move freely. Here's the finished product.

Revolver Gun Firearm Trigger Starting pistol


Overall I'm pleased with how it worked out, especially for what I have in it. I'll take it to the range this week, then clean her up again and stick it back in the case.
 
#18 ·
Congrats, Ian!

My first Police Positive Special (in .32-20) wasn't a beauty queen:



...but it's a fine old Colt. What can I say?

When I had a chance to upgrade to this gem (also .32-20) at a great price, I had to jump on it:



What really got me started on the old Colt revolvers, though, was the .41 Long Colt Army Special that Bryan made me buy:



...and that led to Army Specials in .32-20:



...and .38 Special:



Next thing I knew, I'm caring for New Service revolvers in .45 LC and .45 ACP!



I tell ya - they're worse than 1911's!!! :yup:
 
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