A challenge to the anti's

A challenge to the anti's

This is a discussion on A challenge to the anti's within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; If of course they came here to provide answers - maybe instead we just need to imagine what drivel they might come up with. The ...

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Thread: A challenge to the anti's

  1. #1
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    A challenge to the anti's

    If of course they came here to provide answers - maybe instead we just need to imagine what drivel they might come up with.

    The challenge would be - simply - ''how do you propose disarming the criminals"???

    Rumor has it that in all countries there is something known as the ''black market'' (rhetoric at work!). It is basically run by criminals - for criminals. No matter how assiduously US Customs and Coastguard keep a tight noose on smuggling - fact ....... guns will come in, just as do drugs and other contraband.

    Anything banned is by default up-valued ... always good news to crooks, who are by nature greedy. They would love a ban, and laws which are to be broken, and penalties for breaking of same ..... matter little, at least they never did a whole lot.

    Just maybe a few folks could be more careful keeping their guns secure - could be this would reduce those stolen ... true enough some do get into wrong hands. Perhaps also - prosecute straw purchasers even more but they will still happen - short of all gun dealers being banned too, as will illegal drug procurement.

    That's about it really ......... ban all legal guns and what do we have? Yes - a well armed criminal fraternity. Open season for promulgating their 'skills'.

    I cannot answer the question myself I have posed for anti's ........ because IMO they (crooks) cannot (ever) be disarmed but hey - I'll bet the anti's still have some emotive solution up their collective sleeves.

    I'd love to hear it, if only to have a good laugh (read ridicule).
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  2. #2
    Ex Member Array HOLYROLLER's Avatar
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    I will play the Anti's advocate...please forgive me.

    "No matter how assiduously US Customs and Coastguard keep a tight noose on smuggling - fact ....... guns will come in, just as do drugs and other contraband." Following this logic, should we then legalize drugs as well, or allow them to be posessed legally by citizens who choose to use them?

    A program in the UK called Disarm did the following. How about this for a start...

    Gun Amnesty Results
    The last Gun Amnesty – ‘Get Guns Off the Streets’ was a great success. Between 31 March and 30 April 2003, the amnesty encouraged people to hand in illegally held guns and ammunition at local police stations without being charged.


    A total of 43,908 guns and 1,039,358 rounds of ammunition were handed in and are no longer at risk of falling in the hands of criminals.

    This compares to 22,939 guns and 695,197 rounds of ammunition relinquished during the previous amnesty in June 1996.

    The items included:

    6,529 prohibited firearms (including 5,734 handguns)
    10,513 shot guns
    13,974 air weapons
    9,480 imitations
    3,412 assorted rifles and other guns.

    In addition 7,093 other weapons were also handed in including knives, swords and crossbows.

    Be gentle...

  3. #3
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    Criminals do not join in with buybacks!!! It goes against their ''code''.

    But they love to see them done!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  4. #4
    Ex Member Array HOLYROLLER's Avatar
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    These are guns that may end up in the hands of criminals, thereby reducing the guns available to them. How do you know they do not participate and where do you get this "code"?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOLYROLLER View Post
    These are guns that may end up in the hands of criminals, thereby reducing the guns available to them. How do you know they do not participate and where do you get this "code"?
    Your claim that these guns turned in reduce the amount of guns available to criminals is patently false UNLESS you can prove that the amount of guns turned in every year is greater than the amount of guns that end back up in criminal hands due to theft, smuggling, and the myriad other ways in which they obtain them.

  6. #6
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    The ''code'' is simply that criminals are more than unlikely to comply with any buyback or amnesty - they will want to keep their guns, while relishing honest folks handing theirs in .... that means fewer good folks able to defend themselves. That appeals to them.

    It is possible that poorly secured firearms that are handed in by honest folk - could be in theory have been one more that bad guys could have stolen --but I doubt that category will be very high. Heck some honest folks hand in WWI and WWII trophies that were lost in their attics - and hardly likely to have been found by crooks anyways.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Well, lets see....... First we will have U.N. peacekeepers shut down and disassemble all of the firearms manufacturing plants in the world. They will then ship all of the machine tools to Martha's Vinyard where Ted Kennedy and Charles Schumer can oversee the security. They wont destroy all of the tools as police and the military might need to replace some the guns they break, at least for a while. Then we will ask all citizens to voluntarily turn in all of their guns and ammunition. Six months after the amnesty period ends, we will get the U.N. peacekeepers to come back for house by house searches to check for anything that people may have forgotten they had! Simple!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by smart criminal
    Supply and demand. The removal of all those guns means there are that many fewer armed subjects to resist me and the value of my guns went up due to a lower supply. Also because I bring them in to the country I make more money, have more power and I can build a bigger criminal enterprise. This is why I sponser gun buyback programmes. For a relatively small investment, I can double or triple the value of my product (guns). Also because I am wealthy, I can corrupt the folks handling the guns in the programme so I can pick over what comes in to sell on the street to other criminals. Generally at a profit overall.
    The above quote is not real of course but a fabrication to illustrate....well something.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  9. #9
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    Yep - that nicely fleshes out my thinking Scott
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  10. #10
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    Besides, turning guns in does not necessarily mean that they will be unavailable to criminals. Through a strange set of circumstances including my being a Junior and my father having an FFL I got a call in December from the National Tracing Center about a firearm(Taurus 85 - .38 Spl snubbie) I bought in 1999. It was used in a crime in 2006. I sold it to a friend in August 2004. He moved back to New Orleans, LA in January 2005. He ended up in a shelter after Katrina and had the firearm with him. Later when he was being shipped to Austin, TX by plane he was required to turn it over to the NOPD. So how did it get from the New Orleans Police Department to a criminal in the time between it being turned in to them and the time it was used in a crime?

    I don't know, but it is obvious that turning a firearm over to the police does not mean that no criminal will get it.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

  11. #11
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    That George is an intriguing situation!!

    I remember you mentioning something about this a while ago. Guess nothing carries 100% guarantees!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    It seems as if some are woefully ignorant of history. Everytime the Government has tried to regulate something, the process becomes corrupted. Has anyone thought of Prohibition? That worked well, didn't it!Walter Reed Hospital is a great example of how well government "oversight and management" works for healthcare. That would be our model for national health care. Why does anyone with an IQ of more than two syllables think criminals will play by the rules? They will be the only ones to benefit from futher restrictions on our Second Amendment rights.

    It's time people wake up and stop allowing political rhetoric to continue to spread. "We the People" give the government its authority and "We the People" can take it back - if we get off our collective behinds and DEMAND action. The process works if (and only if) we reach our "line in the sand." Gun buybacks haven't proven effective in the long term anywhere they've been tried. It just raises the price of the replacement illegal firearms. In contrast, cities where responsible firearms ownership is urged or required, crime has exponentially decreased. Kennesaw, Georgia is a good example.
    Tim
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  13. #13
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    When they come for the guns, there will be H#!! to pay! I believe that that will be the 'last straw'. More taxes, cut social security from the picture, marriage with sheep (the next step in our moral decline), kill the young (must be less than a year old), kill the elderly...BUT...take away the guns...damn, that will be a war!

    OMO

    Stay armed...stay safe!

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  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    Message to the BG's: multiple door prizes for all, most likely in a 2+1 combo!
    Tim
    BE PREPARED - Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    You disarm criminals the same way you keep illegal drugs and aliens out of the country.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

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