A message to the men....

This is a discussion on A message to the men.... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I did the exact opposite with my wife. I urged her to try my 1911, and to put down the Sig 239 in 9mm. She ...

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Thread: A message to the men....

  1. #31
    New Member Array Slagged's Avatar
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    I did the exact opposite with my wife. I urged her to try my 1911, and to put down the Sig 239 in 9mm. She now carries a Les Baer TRS Commanche (her choice, her purchase,) and I couldn't be happier.

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  3. #32
    New Member Array KSCCHTrainer's Avatar
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    30+ years ago, when I was stationed in Augsburg, Germany with the US Army, My wife (at that time we'd been married a bit over 3 years) decided she wanted to learn how to shoot. Now I made the mistake of teaching her how to drive a car with a standard transmission and learned I didn't have enough patience to teach a family member (I was a military electronics instructor). I turned the job over to my next door neighbor who was an NRA and military certified firearms instructor.

    He started her out with a POS Llama .357 revolver loaded with .38 wadcutters. The rear sight was so loose that even with a good sight picture, the point of impact varied by up to 2 feet horizontally as it flopped around under recoil. The only thing that gun did was introduce her to recoil. Not a problem. She wanted to shoot my Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44mag as she said the .38/.357 "didn't kick enough".

    I loaded the Ruger with some .44 special loads I had and she popped a few downrange. She had them all in the black at 25 yards on a 25 yard pistol target with even a couple in the X-ring. She sensed something wasn't quite right as it didn't recoil much more than the .38's did, and told me so. I then re-loaded it with 2 .44 specials and the rest Norma .44 mags.

    She started shooting and when she touched off the first magnum round, she immediately fired the rest of the cylinder, had them all clustered around the X-ring and exclaimed "Now, that's more like it!"

    To this day, if it don't have a healthy kick, she doesn't like to shoot it. So far, I haven't been able to interest her in getting her concealed carry permit, but around the house (no kids at home) we have a Model 629 Smith (her gun), my Springfield 1911-A1, my Kahr CW-9 9mm and a Mossberg short barreled 20 gauge pump shotgun that stays in a rack by the bedside.

    She doesn't practice as much as I'd like her to (I'm 65 and she's 60), but when she does go to the range with me, her targets lose their center before mine do, so I guess I don't have to worry much about it.

    Lima, don't get discouraged, not all of us guys are untrainable -
    KSCCHTrainer
    Certified NRA Pistol instructor, Range Safety Officer Kansas Concealed Carry instructor and NRA Life member.

    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt.

    (When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults!)

  4. #33
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    Great responses!.. Thanks...

    Like I said, if you are trying just to get someone to shoot and they are reluctant and scared and don't want to do it... by all means... start them out with that .22 and build them up.

    I am certainly not against training someone on a .22. What I'm against is sticking them in a .22 caliber box and never letting them come out for one reason or another.

    My beef is just when a gal wishes to try something out and are told "no" by the macho types.

    When I first wanted to shoot the .50 BMG sniper rifle. I was told I would hate it because it was "too big for me."

    Gosh darn it were they HORRIBLY wrong. I loved it so much I've been wanting one ever since.

    Personally, when the gal picked up that full size, steel framed 1911 in 9mm I had to give her a thumbs up because that would be a pretty good gun to learn on. The weight would compensate wonderfully for the recoil, the grip safety would train a good strong grip. I thought she made a very good choice even for a first time gun.

    I do wish more gals would come in without their significant others.

    I got a gal yesterday who abandoned her husband in the range to come out and look at guns. I took a brief history on what she was looking for and what she wanted. She was looking for a carry gun for herself and she had shot mostly .45s and wanted something smaller.

    She was very short and had very very short fingers (perhaps a little dwarfism in her family). She also knew she wanted a .380 with some kind of an external safety.

    I showed her a Sig 232 and a Walther PPK.. The only thing she didn't like about the Sig was the mag release on the bottom, but she LOVED the PPK.

    She didn't like the grips on the PPK but I assured her she could change them if she wanted.

    When her husband came out she just raved about the PPK. He was very understanding and supportive and said if that was the gun she wanted he was fine with it.

    She almost jumped up and down with his approval and started asking what kinds of things she could customize on it and this and that, and was generally very excited.

    No, not all guys are jerks (believe me, I know.. I married one of the best ). This is just a suggestion to those who aren't as understanding as a lot of other guys in this world.

  5. #34
    pax
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    Limatunes ~

    Preach it, sister. And keep preaching it!

    Spent the day on the range yesterday with 25 women, supervising as they shot everything from .22s up through a Ruger Alaskan .454 Casull. We shot a bunch of fun targets too -- a brick wall, a cinderblock, a mocked up bookcase, a mocked up dresser drawer, a water box, a car door -- and spent the day discussing the important factors in caliber, platform and ammunition selection.

    It was a hoot, but more than that ...

    Guys, women as a whole are intelligent creatures. They're bright enough to figure out that a .22 helps a new shooter avoid flinching, that a .38 special or a .357 Mag or a 9mm or a .40 or a .45 is a pretty good selection for carry depending on your personal preferences. Most of them are smart enough to figure out, all on their very own, when a given caliber is too much for them to shoot well or to shoot quickly. Female beginning shooters need good information and a few reasonable choices -- just like you needed when you first began shooting.

    pax
    Kathy Jackson
    My website: Cornered Cat

  6. #35
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Guys, women as a whole are more intelligent creatures
    Fixed!

    Which is why my wife earns many more times what I will ever earn, and why she's in Mensa and graduated University at 20.
    And also why I never have male dogs, girl dogs are a lot smarter.

    YMMV.

  7. #36
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    lima - another very fine post ........ and I do agree we should not stereotype, anyone whatever their gender or hand size etc.

    I am still in the camp that reckons a .22 is great for for first ever shooting, for many people . if only to concentrate on trigger technique, grip, breathing etc - without any recoil issues. Get that stuff deaslt with and move on.

    However, as you rightly say - larger cal's are most certainly not to be dismissed at all - and the decision has to be made by the shooter, based on balanced advice, and not brow-beating!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  8. #37
    OD*
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    Women should not be allowed to shoot big bore weapons!

    My much better half shooting a Freedom Arms .454 Casull.


    Don't tell her she can't shoot something.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
    ~ Tiger McKee

  9. #38
    pax
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    P95Carry ~

    You know one of the things that is consistently missing from the factors considered by the ".22s for women" crowd? It's the gut-level realization that not all women looking for a gun are rank beginners.

    It gets really (really, really, really, really) tiresome to explain to the guy behind the table at the gun show that I'm not a beginning shooter, and that I do know what I am looking for. And to do this again at. Every. Single. Stinking. Table.

    Guy goes shopping for a gun. He wants a .44 magnum. Guy behind the counter sells it to him without a quiver.

    Gal goes looking for a gun. She wants a .45 ACP 1911. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry in four states tries to talk her out of it, and the guy behind the counter at the gun store has to be cajoled into doing business with her -- which he does reluctantly, only after arguing with her for 45 minutes and only after making sure she has seen or handled every single mousegun in the store.

    (The guy shopping for a .44 Mag? It was his first gun. I know, he proudly showed his Dirty Harry revolver to me the next day. The gal? She was an experienced shooter looking for a competition gun. I know because she told me her story and we both laughed together about the folly of humankind.)

    ***

    Anyway. I absolutely agree with you that, all other things being equal, a beginner really should start out on a .22.

    However, we live in the real world. In the real world, when someone wants a gun for defense, they rarely have enough money to purchase both a .22 plinker and a defense gun right away. In such cases, I favor steering them toward an affordable, light-recoil caliber (such as the 9mm or the .38 spl) in a reliable platform, and letting them learn to shoot on that.

    I also really, really, really favor listening to people, giving them good information, and then letting them make up their own minds.

    Male or female, no one enjoys having other people's choices shoved down their throat.

    pax
    Kathy Jackson
    My website: Cornered Cat

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Yes Ma'am, just don't pistol whip me.
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this mini documentary!
    Then check out my blog! www.BodyByMcDonalds.com

    Cupcake - 100 pound loser, adventurer, Ironman Triathlete.

  11. #40
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    I should have added Pax - my ''.22 philosophy'' is actually not gender linked at all - purely a possible good start for anyone totally new.

    After that then for sure - shooter decides based on acrued good advice and honest assessment of self potential etc.

    I'll add too, and many guys I am sure will attest to this - I have seen some first class lady shooters, shooting all the usual cal's - who can wipe the floor with many guy shooters!!

    Let's here it for the ladies!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  12. #41
    pax
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    P95Carry ~

    I know that. Sorry if it sounded like I was going off on you. Just had an annoying time at a gun show with a friend who was shopping for a gun awhile back, and ... you know ... got a little wound up when I started typing about it.

    limatunes ~

    Great thread.

    Don't get discouraged behind the counter. Most gun guys are good guys, and most are trying pretty hard to get it right.

    pax
    Kathy Jackson
    My website: Cornered Cat

  13. #42
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    I took a female friend out to the range with me over christmas because she wanted to try shooting. At that time I had available to me a Dan Wesson 15-2-V6 .357, a Charter .38 and my Kel-tec .380.

    I took .38s and .380s She did not like the keltec but was a good shot with it. She did however like both the 357 and the 38 shooting 38s. She would have liked to shoot 357s but I had not brought any for either of us.
    This past week a young lady (21yo 5'6" 110 lbs [guessing]) was suppose to go on a range trip with me. She asked that we bring a 45 as that is what she is comfortable with. I said let me see if I can get one, we did but unfortunatly she has to back out because she got called into work... wonder if we can find another opportunity before the end of the semester.
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

    -James Earl Jones

  14. #43
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    I'd be absolutely ESCTATIC if I could find a single woman who liked to shoot PERIOD.

    She could shoot ANY calibre she wished and it'd be a BEAUTIFUL thing!!
    It's not about the caliber you carry, it's about how you USE it.

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  15. #44
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    Female Shooter

    I met a single female who wanted to shoot (I'm a male). Met her during an assignment - she was being stalked by a nutcase. We discussed personal self-defense, weapons, physical conditioning, use of shotguns v. pistols, best caliber. She had never fired a gun before.

    Short of it, after a series of tests on a gun range, she settled on a 3" Ruger Stainless .357, 125 JHP (.357 is my favorite weapon), home protection - a 20 gauge shotgun w/#3, and a kid's baseball bat.

    Set up home security which included the 10% solution (alarms), the bulk of it physical security and awareness; taught her unarmed self-defense (not karate or judo or other, but close quarter combat including use of anything sharp or which could be made impact-sharp) and she is/was a terrifying opponent. May God have mercy on anyone who attempted to attack her - she wouldn't. Nope, didn't marry her (I was single but was married to my work).

    I've worked on assignments with female associates whom I vetted and therefore knew that I could trust them when times became tough, challenging or threatening. And they were very female and lovely.

    If you think females can't handle it, think again!

    Regards to all of you and especially those females out there who refuse to accept a secondary role or are learning to challenge the male stereotype.
    Semper Vigilantia - Semper Paratus
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  16. #45
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    Some guys just don't get it. I've been in gun stores many times where I've overheard the guy telling his girl what she needs.

    The woman should make up her own mind about what is right for her.

    When I first took my wife to the range, she fired 9mil, 38 special, 357 magnum and finally my 45acp.

    What was the thing that surprised her most? It was the recoil - or more accurately, the lack of same. She thought these guns kicked a lot less than she expected.

    I wouldn't have the guts to try to tell my wife what to do, with guns or anything else. The hysterical laughter would embarrass me.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

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