April 28th, 2007 11:39 PM
A message to the men....
I know that this forum is prominently male populated and I also know that a vast, Vast, VAST majority of the men on this forum are understanding, encouraging, accepting and supporting of female shooters.
That being said, let me make a suggestion....
When your wife, girlfriend, gal friend, fiance, lover, WHATEVER, asks to shoot or at least consider a larger caliber weapon.... LET HER. And please, let HER decide whether it is too much for her.
Most of the people who know me on this forum know that I started working at a gun shop/range this last week.
Within my first two days of working there I have heard three women criticized and degraded for their desire for a larger caliber.
One gal came in today with her boyfriend. While he talked revolvers with one of the other salespeople I struck up a conversation with her and started showing her different pistols, calibers and styles.
She picked up and practically started drooling over a full size Kimber 1911 in 9mm. She took it over to her boyfriend and almost begged him to let her try it out.
I watched her face completely fall as he insisted that was too much caliber for her and proceeded to tell her she needed a .22.
When she asked why he thought the 9mm was too much for her he condescendingly started to say it would scare her and that she wouldn't learn as well with the Kimber as she would with a .22.
She trusted his judgment, handed me back the 9mm and said, "Well, he knows guns."
I wanted to reach across the counter and smack him up side the head.
If she's willing to try the caliber, EVEN IF SHE'S NOT GREAT AT IT, or learns she doesn't like it.. LET HER FRICKEN TRY IT!!!!!!. She will be able to tell if she doesn't like it or not.
If you are trying to convince someone who hates guns to at least TRY them, sure, start them out with something small. But if they are willing and wanting and practically BEGGING to try it.. LET THEM!!!
I cannot tell you how many people have told me that this or that gun was too big for me. I can't tell you how many times I've been told I could never handle that recoil or this recoil or asked how I could POSSIBLY carry a .40 in a 3" barrel. I've been told not even to worry about picking up or looking at such and such a gun because it was "too much for me."
No wonder girls flinch and jump and squeal when they shoot larger calibers, they've been told over and over again that it's too much for them.
The first pistol I ever shot was a full size Colt 1911 in .45 and I learned JUST FINE. YES, I carry a .40 in the 3" barrel. I shoot it ALL THE TIME and NO I don't get tired and it doesn't hurt. If I can do it and if I love it, another girl may do the same. LET THEM DECIDE!
I have had a total of three female customers just today and I am very careful to ask what they will be using the gun for, what kind of features they have enjoyed on other guns they have shot and what they have not enjoyed on other guns they've shot. I suggest accordingly (either larger or smaller or agree with their choice).
But if that gal wants to rent a gun and wants to try out a larger caliber, for goodness sake let them.
Rant switch off.. carry on.
Last edited by limatunes; April 28th, 2007 at 11:55 PM.
April 28th, 2007 11:42 PM
Bread in Bread out.......remember there are a lot of not understanding people in this world!!!(DUMB)
just relax...and smile .....SEMPERFI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think will work but I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much the universal language."
April 28th, 2007 11:55 PM
I dont have that problem my old lady really only likes to shoot a 1911 in 45 course she saw the limit at the 500 and say not gonna happen but will shoot a few out of the snub 44 mag
I always encouraged her to shoot what she wants
As you said her first husband would let her shoot the 1911 45 First time we went shooting and she found out i had one she asked if she could shoot it i told her if she thought she could handle it to have at it .. lost that 1911 to her 7 years ago or so ..
Bought her a new colt 1911 for birthday last year to
What i hate seeing is the guy pushing they Woman to shoot more than she should as a starter here shoot this 12 oz 357 mag with full power mags and youve never shot a gun ..
April 28th, 2007 11:55 PM
I'll never understand those folks.
Last year my sister wanted to try shooting a handgun. I asked her what she was interested in and she pointed to my Sig 220. She loved the .45, and was a great shot having never fired one before. Last week she tried a .22 and grouped much worse than before.
A while back my (other) sister's fiancée was showing her how to shoot. It was like a page out of "how to get women to hate guns." Gave her a POS .380 that jammed all the time, loading it for her, clearing the jams, not instructing on technique. She got PO'd real quick so I told him to take a break and showed her how to load, how to deal with jams, and here try this one I brought that isn't a total POS. She was more into it after that. Gee, can't imagine why.
I guess some people think that women just can't grasp how things work. Kinda like, "how do I decide what to buy my wife to carry?" Well, how did you decide? Why can't she do that? Yeesh.
Rant off here too...
April 29th, 2007 12:04 AM
Well I have never told a woman that she cannot handle it.
I did take a lady to the range once cause she told me that she has never shot a handgun. Soooo, to the range we went. I first started her off with the .380 and she loved it. Then she wanted to shoot my 9mm and I said sure!
She got through with that one and I asked her if she wanted to try the .45. Nawww, she said, I want to try the SKS.
She loved it too!
April 29th, 2007 12:07 AM
Good post Lima, I guess many of us operate from assumptions or from what we ahve been told by others. My wife hasnt shot yet but will soon and your post will change things, thank you.
April 29th, 2007 12:09 AM
Any gal who wants to can shoot my .45!
April 29th, 2007 12:20 AM
Like I said, the vast majority of members here are understanding and accepting, but for those few who are not, I hope they at least take a suggestion.
I had a guy who was looking at .22s today ask me if I shoot guns.
I said I did.
He asked me what I shot.
I said a Kimber 1911 in .40.
He said, "You DO NOT shoot a .40. With those little wrists. NO WAY."
I assured him I did. He still didn't believe me. I just smiled at him. No point in arguing. I know what I can handle and the .40 is low on that totem pole.
April 29th, 2007 12:22 AM
1951 - 2011
Hello. I fully agree with the "let the lady herself decide" and add that if she is really interested, she will be able to handle 9mm, .38 Super, through .45 ACP. (I have not seen harder kicking calibers used by ladies but then again, I've not seen everything.) If not immediately, she will with proper range sessions, training and encouragement............just like we do.
FWIW, the oldest lady I recall being at the firing range for Texas CHL qualifications was either 84 or 86 years of age and just a really sharp and pleasant soul.
She didn't get 100%, but she easily qualified with her late husband's 1911 and ball ammo.
PS: I try not to be rude, but really had to work at not laughing out loud at a sort of smart-aleck fellow who was shooting next to her. He looked at her target and then his and almost hung his head. Hers was considerably better!
April 29th, 2007 12:26 AM
Downrange their ar women who carry M16's w/203's, M249's, M60's, etc. They have to qualify with these weapons and can handle them just fine.
April 29th, 2007 12:34 AM
.22 is the generally accepted optimal caliber for first time shooters, and he did say that she was learning. Maybe she had never shot before?
Not saying he was right to belittle her though at all, just trying to sift through all the evidence as it was.
I can't stand being around women that ask my permission to do something/anything so it is a moot point with me, when we're in the gun store we don't make scenes like that, I feel bad for you having to deal with guys that are so 'old school'.
April 29th, 2007 12:36 AM
Yup, your going to have many more rants from the gun store. This is the tip of the ice berg. You will here all kinds of myths believed to be the gospel and all kinds of know it alls. I dont know why, but gun shops attract them like flies on cow pies.
April 29th, 2007 12:47 AM
I have yet to see someone who didn't know his or her preferences after shooting a dozen different guns. Doesn't necessarily make it the best choice, but it's that person's choice. Everyone should be open to all the facts, though, such as whether a gun is objectively a sub-standard weapon, can or cannot be corrected by gunsmithing, etc. That said, one's choice is the choice.
Look at me: I picked a Browning BDM, years ago. I don't know a single other person that did such a thing. Go figure. Strange decocker/safety. Gunsmiths hate it. Yet, it's one of the best guns I've shot. Who knew? I still have one, and it just keeps on tickin'.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
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April 29th, 2007 01:03 AM
As one of "those" guys who is making his wife start out with a .22, I suppose I should try and defend myself, or, at least, justify my actions.
Point 1 - My wife HATES guns.. its taken me 10 years to get her to agree to try..the last thing I want to have happen, is for her to get turned off of shooting with the first shot because of the report, or the kick of a larger caliber.
2 - I've been married to her for a decade (ugh..that sounds so long saying it that way..let's go back to 10 years). I have a very good idea of what will and will not 'scare' her. I firmly believe that if her first pull of the trigger is on a 'large' caliber weapon..she will be either too scared to enjoy it, or too nervous anticipating the bang to enjoy it.
3 - Making her start with a .22 gave me an excuse to buy another gun, even if she gets turned off of shooting, I have a less expensive way to go shooting now. (ok, so that one is really selfish).
4- Should she like shooting, she's more then welcome to try either of my Glocks, and I'll let her rent every gun the ranges near us have for rental to find one she likes..then I'll buy her that one..but in order to get that result.. I have to 'guide' her a bit.
reader's digest version:
for my wife: big bang from large caliber for first time = non-shooter for at least another decade.. little bang from .22 for first time = possibly a new shooter...
April 29th, 2007 01:17 AM
When I travel, my wife tells me to leave my 229/.40...she can drive tacks with it (and she doesn't practice as much as I like) and can handle it better than my P226/.40
Lima--keep'em guessing....I think you should wager with them when the guys (customers) get stupid and condescending. Quite frankly, if I were to see someone like yourself carry a 1911, I would assume you would know how to shoot it and clean it.
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