Gun ownership in Australia

[sisco]

At a motorcycle forum I belong to the subject of concealed carry while riding came up.
One of the forum members from Australia posted this:
*****************
To use a quote from a Monty Python film, The Life of Brian, "You lucky, lucky, lucky, ..."

Even IF I went through the loooong process to get a pistol licence here, and was eventually deemed suitable to own one by our benificent authorities, if a member of the public so much as saw it in a public place in a holster under my jacket, the cops would be down on my arse so fast my head would spin and I'd probably spend a few nights in jail with the child molesters and murderers...no "concealed carry laws" for us I am afraid...at least not for John Q. Citizen...

Jeez, even if I am going out to a property to do some pest control shooting with my rifles, they must be: a/ locked in the trunk of the car, otherwise secured in a sealed box out of sight, b/ the bolt must be removed or the action broken, c/ the ammuniton must be in a seperate locked container, not stored with the weapons.

However, I still love to read about you guys and the freedom you have in the good ole' USA...fight for it with your last breath!

*************
The last sentence says it all.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[kentuckycarry]

Sounds like Illinois right here in the good ol USA.

[sisco]

Someone on the bike forum wanted to know if he was sure he wasn't in California.

[CopperKnight]

Good reminder of what we do have. Need to keep "our benificent authorities" from chipping away at it.

[BikerRN]

Being the spouse of an aussie I am somewhat familiar with aussie gun laws.

In short, they SUCK! This is why my wife and I live right here in the "Good Ol' US of A. I've hunted in Australia, and travelled parts of it. The Outback and rural people are great, but the ninnies in the city are typical fools that think the police are there to save you.

When I came home to America after a 3 month vacation down under the first thing I did was renew my NRA Membership and buy another gun. I hope to God we never get as bad as them in relation to our gunlaws. Although some places already are, we still have "pockets" of areas where the Second Amendment is still honored and respected.

I'll keep my guns, as far as Australia goes, I think we will be like them in the future, and I dread the day.

Biker

[mech1369dlw]

[QUOTE=sisco;373137]...

However, I still love to read about you guys and the freedom you have in the good ole' USA...fight for it with your last breath!

I WILL fight for our rights to the last breath, then they gonna have to pry it loose.

[Janq]

Interesting facts on Australian Crime
* One in every three Australians is a victim of crime.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/...alia/cri-crime

Crime Statistics > Total crime victims by country
#1 Australia: 30.1%
#2 New Zealand: 29.4%
#3 United Kingdom: 26.4%
#4 Netherlands: 25.2%
#5 Sweden: 24.7%
#6 Italy: 24.6%
#7 Canada: 23.8%
#8 Saint Kitts and Nevis: 23.2%
#9 Malta: 23.1%
#10 Denmark: 23%
#11 Poland: 22.7%
#12 Belgium: 21.4%
#13 France: 21.4%
#14 Slovenia: 21.2%
#15 United States: 21.1%
#16 Finland: 19.1%
#17 Austria: 18.8%
#18 Switzerland: 18.2%
#19 Portugal: 15.5%
#20 Japan: 15.2%
Weighted average: 22.4%

DEFINITION: People victimized by crime (as a % of the total population). Data refer to people victimized by one or more of 11 crimes recorded in the survey: robbery, burglary, attempted burglary, car theft, car vandalism, bicycle theft, sexual assault, theft from car, theft of personal property, assault and threats. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.

SOURCE: UNICRI (United Nations Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute). 2002. Correspondence on data on crime victims. March. Turin

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-total-victims

- Janq

[me]

seeing the above why is it that everyone points to our gun crime rate being higher but neglects to mention our lower violent crime rate... oh yeah they want us to be subjects like those in other countries

[retsupt99]

The Only Female Presidential Candidate, and her cohorts...would like to get us to the top of that list...

Stay armed...stay safe!

ret

[Janq]

Me,

The facts of the matter get even more interesting when you look at additional data with a critical non-emotional and apolitical eye...

"Total crimes per capita"
#1 Dominica: 113.822 per 1,000 people
#2 New Zealand: 105.881 per 1,000 people
#3 Finland: 101.526 per 1,000 people
#4 Denmark: 92.8277 per 1,000 people
#5 Chile: 88.226 per 1,000 people
#6 United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people
#7 Montserrat: 80.3982 per 1,000 people
#8 United States: 80.0645 per 1,000 people
#9 Netherlands: 79.5779 per 1,000 people
#10 South Africa: 77.1862 per 1,000 people
#11 Germany: 75.9996 per 1,000 people
#12 Canada: 75.4921 per 1,000 people
#13 Norway: 71.8639 per 1,000 people
#14 France: 62.1843 per 1,000 people

DEFINITION: Note: Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence. Per capita figures expressed per 1,000 population.

SOURCE: Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...mes-per-capita

New Zealand, Finland, Denmark (!), and the UK too are more dangerous than the US when comparing citizens to citizens as opposed to total whole numbers of which of course we beat them due to our land mass size and thus population numbers. What is interesting though is how the world likes to say we Americans have a culture of crime and a lust for violence. Well that may be true. But we don't even place in that global race of population shame. The English amongst others have the same issues only worst.

Now keep in mind the sources here are not the NRA, GOA, or the Brady Bunch. It's not the FBI or some other govt. agency spinning the data to appear favorable toward a given audience.
This is the United Nations 'Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute'; http://www.unicri.it

UNICRI is a United Nations entity mandated to assist intergovernmental, governmental and non-governmental organizations in formulating and implementing improved policies in the field of crime prevention and criminal justice. UNICRI' s goals are:
# to advance understanding of crime-related problems
# to foster just and efficient criminal justice systems
# to support the respect of international instruments and other standards
# to facilitate international law enforcement cooperation and judicial assistance.

UNICRI is governed by a Board of Trustees composed of eminent experts. The staff cover a wide range of expertise in the management of research, training, technical cooperation and documentation and are supported by highly qualified consultants selected according to project requirements.

http://www.unicri.it/wwa/wwa.php

UNICRI disseminates information and maintains contacts with professionals and experts worldwide.

The Documentation/Information Centre is responsible for the collection, analysis and dissemination of the legislative, statistical, scientific and technical documents as well as for the information services of the Institute and the preparation of printed material, the maintenance of the Institute website and the organization of cultural events. The Centre services international organizations, national institutions, NGO's and selected esperts/researchers on an ad hoc basis.

UNICRI's library includes more than 20.000 monographs, journals and yearbooks (printed and online editions), tens of thousands documents by the United Nations System on crime prevention and criminal justice issues.

http://www.unicri.it/wwk/wwk.php

The UN.

One thing absolutely no one regardless of leaning toward firearms and lassociated laws may say is that the UN is paid for or bought off by the gun lobby. Anyone who might ignore the above _facts_ and results of research by again, the UN, so as to support their own belief that guns are bad and the US is the worst would be completely ignorant and worst a believer in fairy tales rather than facts.

Personally it just doesn't get any more plain and simple for me.
The US is actually pretty darn good in so far as crime relative to others on the whole and especially considering our population numbers, contrary to popular and incorrect belief/assumption/global media tales. As well one thing rings true, remove firearms from the people by choice or Orwellian laws (e.g. Australia & England) and crime will increase with lawful people left to hold the bag even if they aren't victimized with a firearm by a BG as opposed to being stabbed, bludgeoned, beaten with shoes & fists, or simply intimidated verbally with threat of escalated violence toward their person.

The people of Scotland, like the English and Australians of late, have learned this exact lesson the hard way as they too have completely banned legal citizen ownership of firearms only to find out thereafter that crime & violence continued and continues...

'Tackling Knife Crime ? A Consultation'

...In 2004, Scotland had the 4th highest incidence of death by violence in the European Union. Year upon year, murder statistics show that knives and other sharp items continue to be the most common method of killing in this country, consistently accounting for around half of all murders each year.

Cathy Jamieson, MSP, Minister for Justice, Scotland
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publicati...27110147/01543

- Janq

[Rock and Glock]

The people of Scotland, like the English and Australians of late, have learned this exact lesson the hard way as they too have completely banned legal citizen ownership of firearms only to find out thereafter that crime & violence continued and continues...

What more needs be said?

Excellent post, Janq. Thanks.

[Bark'n]

Good correlation Janq! Thanks for the stats.

[Schwebel]

I had a long discussion at work about firearms with an aussie. The police can come into your house and inspect your firearms anytime they wish. They will confiscate them if not stored acccording to their laws, and forget transporting the things, hassle X's 2. Also you are only allowed bolt-action rifles and breech loading shotguns. No pumps or semi-autos of any kind are allowed. He kept saying how it's a better system b/c there are less shootings in aussieland. Wish I had these stats to show some reason to him.

[Janq]

Schwebel,

I can tell you from experience it would not have mattered.

I've told people the above stats, which are not at all hard to locate, and consistently the response is; "That can't be right"..."Who told you that, the NRA?!"..."Those countries are not developed/the same as the US (?!)"..."Yeah, well who provided them the data?!"...and basically disbelief.
I've also sent these exact same facts, figures, and links amongst many more to people directly via e-mails as well as posting as much in applicable subject threads at non 2A and largely liberal membership sites that for various reasons & interests I also visit and spend time with. Those persons with the information right there in front of their face or accessible via a link will retort that it's too much to read (?!) or they aren't good with math (!) or simply as my anti wife will do just get quiet or say they don't want to talk about it anymore.

I might introduce this and other info to 100 people between my real life and on the internets and amongst those maybe 2 or 5 may say out loud in so many words hey you're making sense or I never knew that wow that makes me think or...hey would you mind taking me to the range one day to learn more about guns which up to now I fear for all manner of reasons sensible (friend/family member once got shot) or not.

It's an up hill battle and a numbers game.
Not to sound pessimistic because I'm not but in real life it seems to me and my own experiences that of those who are not in our camp (including pro-2A and anti CCW/handgun traditional hunters) it generally takes either an epiphany of understanding whihc includes wiping away of ones eyes of media tinged rose colored contact lenses. Or it takes being victimized directly and even then it seems like 1 in 5 will see the light while the other 4 will blame the gun and not the mind & man controlling the hand holding the gun which is nothing more than a tool.
In times past at other forums I've even gone so far as to show that other types of guns are just as dangerous as firearms and are used directly in real crimes including theft & murder. Specifically I choose nail guns...like you know what carpenters and home builders amongst others use. Believe it or not there is a not small amount of crimes committed with nail guns including homocides by those with criminal intent. I purposefully did not reference job site/homeowner accidents which themselves are reported by the CDC as being on a steep increasedue to their popularity.
The result of that effort, which was I assure you detailed with citation of sources included, was nothing different than anything else. Naysayers scoffed and blew me off as being some sort of paranoid pseudo-survivalist type that is just itching to pull a trigger and thus am a 'gun nut'. Fact is I'm no where near that at all not to mention I too am a liberal (more so centrist) who just doesn't happen to be a passive pushover nor living in a snow dome ignorant of real life as it is and can be.

I'll bet your Aussie friend would not see the light because he just doesn't want to and/or feel the need is pressing...until he finds himself as being a statistic and one of the every three Aussies to be come a victim of a violent crime. Even then he might blow it off as eh I just gave him/them my wallet and they scared me a little but it all worked out okay...that time.

- Janq

"I'd rather be killed than take another life any day, no matter how tortured they are. Perhaps not a popular view, but it's mine." - Todays 'Statement of the Century' thread @ http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ad.php?t=25788

[sgtD]

The Outback and rural people are great, but the ninnies in the city are typical fools that think the police are there to save you.

:

This is very telling, and no suprise considering that 70% of the Austrailian population live in urban areas.

I know there are decent people in citites, so I don't want to step on any toes here, but generally speaking, city folk tend to look to big brother for help and be less self reliant and more liberal in their politics.

Look at the county by county red and blue maps of who voted in the last presidential election if you don't believe me. Gore and Kerry won the big cities hands down.

What then does this portend for our future freedom, as our society becomes more urban with each generation? The only people who won't be living and working in urban environments will soon be the illegals who do agricultural work and can't vote. Well I guess they'll be voting soon enough by the sound of things in DC. What then?

Just my thoughts, YMMV