A question for the 1911 gurus.

This is a discussion on A question for the 1911 gurus. within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Oki Doki, Yesterday I dropped my 1911 (well, technically it fell, but anyway). I took it apart, checked it over, took it down to the ...

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Thread: A question for the 1911 gurus.

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    A question for the 1911 gurus.

    Oki Doki,
    Yesterday I dropped my 1911 (well, technically it fell, but anyway).

    I took it apart, checked it over, took it down to the main-spring housing, looked for cracks or other damage, did a functionality test, even a pencil test, pulled the trigger and discovered something rather odd...

    My trigger pull is lighter than it was before.

    Now, everything seems to be in working order. I ran snap-caps through the thing, I've done everything but take it to the range or a gun smith. I have not seen one thing out of order other than the scratch on the gun's slide.

    I thought I could be going crazy, so I gave the gun to my husband and said, "Check out the trigger pull."

    He agrees. It's lighter.

    WHAT ON EARTH would cause that?

    I checked the sear, the sear spring, the trigger itself, everything looks completely normal. I know my way around 1911s and I don't see how dropping the gun would cause the trigger pull to do ANYTHING much less become lighter.

    Any insight?

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    I won't claim to be a 1911 guru, but I have built about 8 from scratch.

    I presume it was cocked and locked when you dropped it? Any chance the hammer took a hit? If slow the hammer sears and the sear may have been altered, that could cause a lighter trigger pull and if that is the cause for the lighter trigger pull, the gun could be unsafe.

    Whatever, caused the lighter pull, indicates some significant change due to impact. The only three things I can think of that affect trigger pull in a 1911 is the hammer spring, the sear spring (flat spring), and the condition of the sear and hammer sears. It is highly unlikely that the springs were altered. It is possible that the hammer strut was bent and that may lighten the trig. pull a bit.

    Sounds like it may be a good idea to get a competent 1911 'smith to take a look at it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I won't claim to be a 1911 guru, but I have built about 8 from scratch.

    I presume it was cocked and locked when you dropped it? Any chance the hammer took a hit? If slow the hammer sears and the sear may have been altered, that could cause a lighter trigger pull and if that is the cause for the lighter trigger pull, the gun could be unsafe.

    Whatever, caused the lighter pull, indicates some significant change due to impact. The only three things I can think of that affect trigger pull in a 1911 is the hammer spring, the sear spring (flat spring), and the condition of the sear and hammer sears. It is highly unlikely that the springs were altered. It is possible that the hammer strut was bent and that may lighten the trig. pull a bit.

    Sounds like it may be a good idea to get a competent 1911 'smith to take a look at it.
    You are correct in your assumption. The hammer was cocked and locked.

    I'm not entirely positive of the point of impact so I can't really say for sure if it hit the hammer.

    While speculating last night my husband thought that it could have been something as simple as the sear or sear spring or hammer and strut not being inserted correctly and after taking it apart and putting it back together everything was put in the right spot and that NOW I have my CORRECT trigger pull.

    That sounds good and I'd love to believe that, but I don't want to bet my life on it either.

    There's a little wear and some scarring where the thumb safety REALLY rubbed up against the frame from the drop. I don't see any reason why that would effect trigger pull, however.

    I've got a new thumb safety coming in the mail, next is coming a new mainspring housing and eventually I'm getting a new medium length trigger. I may go ahead and order a new hammer sear and strut to be triply sure. If the strut was bent that was ONE HECK of a drop.

    I may just have to bite the bullet (ha ha ha) and have someone look at it.
    Last edited by limatunes; May 31st, 2007 at 11:51 AM.

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    Damage to the thumb safety could increase trigger pull weight due to rubbing, but I see no way it could make the pull lighter.

    I don't see how the hammer strut could be out of position in a way would decrease pull wt. But something went back together differently, obviously to return the pull back to normal. That's just a bit scary.

    If you order a hammer and sear, be sure you get a matched set. That almost insures the correct relationship between the hammer and sear. You don't want to try to 'fit' the hammer and sear. I like Wilson Combat hammers and sears. If the price isn't too much for your budget, I'd get the tool steel version.

    You know the thumb safety is not a drop in and has to be fitted? And it has to be fitted pretty closely. And the angle on the safety has to be correct.

    I personally like the short trigger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Damage to the thumb safety could increase trigger pull weight due to rubbing, but I see no way it could make the pull lighter.

    I don't see how the hammer strut could be out of position in a way would decrease pull wt. But something went back together differently, obviously to return the pull back to normal. That's just a bit scary.

    If you order a hammer and sear, be sure you get a matched set. That almost insures the correct relationship between the hammer and sear. You don't want to try to 'fit' the hammer and sear. I like Wilson Combat hammers and sears. If the price isn't too much for your budget, I'd get the tool steel version.

    You know the thumb safety is not a drop in and has to be fitted? And it has to be fitted pretty closely. And the angle on the safety has to be correct.

    I personally like the short trigger.
    I do know that all of these parts are going to need some custom fitting. We have a fabulous 1911 gun smith that my .40 is at right now but because of back-logged work it takes about 3 months for them to complete any order no matter how trivial. I was going to get the parts and give them to him when my .40 comes back so at least I have one carry gun while the other is getting worked on. I was just hoping I wouldn't have to do it sooner rather than later.

    I'm going for pretty much all Wilson Combat parts. I'm kind of new in this territory as I've never had to replace any of this stuff on my 1911s before past grips and a new slide stop and magazines, but oh well. New ground.

    All of your questions are the same ones I've been asking myself.

    How could the hammer strut be placed in the gun wrong? How could a damaged safety make a LIGHTER trigger pull? It's just weird.

    I'm going to be really miffed if they take the gun, look it over and say, "Nope, there is nothing wrong with this gun. It's perfect."

    Then what caused the heavy trigger pull I bought the gun with?

    This can drive one crazy.

    The reason I want the medium trigger length is because right now I have a long trigger. My short little fingers can reach it but because of the length my finger doesn't wrap around it QUITE like it should. A short might be a little too short, the long is too long so the medium should work well.

    I wish there was a Brownells shop I could visit to actually size the parts up to my gun and see if I'd like em but, alas, I'm not that lucky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    The reason I want the medium trigger length is because right now I have a long trigger. My short little fingers can reach it but because of the length my finger doesn't wrap around it QUITE like it should. A short might be a little too short, the long is too long so the medium should work well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    Planning on changing your username to Goldilocks?
    LOL..

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    just incase you havent seen this page before..
    http://www.coolgunsite.com/funcheck/function.htm

    Pretty handy for function checking components of the 1911.

    you may also want to check this site.
    http://forums.1911forum.com/
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    Im with Tangle on this check the sear and hammer hooks they are MIM also so it could have done something to them

    the lighter pull then reassy same weight as before bothers me

    could be sear spring was out of whack again i doubt it

    If the hammer strut was bent it would be rubbing the grip safety so i doubt that also

    shoot it at least 100 rounds before you trust it

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    I'm concerned about the hammer hooks or sears and the sear. It's about the only thing that could do that. That means the interface has changed some how. If that is what's happened, that's not good at all.
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    or the hammer and sear pin .. getting slightly bent

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bud White View Post
    or the hammer and sear pin .. getting slightly bent
    Okay, I just took the entire thing apart.. Again.. and specifically looked at those pieces and they all look perfect. Not a bend, a ding or even a scratch.
    Last edited by limatunes; May 31st, 2007 at 06:43 PM.

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    Hmmm, this is gettin' weird. Did you look good at the sear faces? The hammer sears (or hooks) and the sear only 'hook' by a tiny fraction of an inch. The sears could be ever so slightly deformed on the contact faces. Other than what Bud mentioned, bent pin etc., I just don't know what else would reduce trigger pull.

    I'm still kinda leanin' toward some messed up sear faces. But if you've already checked that, hmmmm...gonna have to think about this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Hmmm, this is gettin' weird. Did you look good at the sear faces? The hammer sears (or hooks) and the sear only 'hook' by a tiny fraction of an inch. The sears could be ever so slightly deformed on the contact faces. Other than what Bud mentioned, bent pin etc., I just don't know what else would reduce trigger pull.

    I'm still kinda leanin' toward some messed up sear faces. But if you've already checked that, hmmmm...gonna have to think about this.
    Yep, took out the sear and the disconnecter, looked them over, look for even the SLIGHtest for nicks or scratches, the bluing isn't even completely worn off of them yet, not to mention absolutely no sign of wear.

    The pins were as straight as an arrow. The strut has what I would consider to be a perfect curve. Everything looked great!

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    I could accept this as perhaps a foreign object, burr, etc. in the gun to start with which produced a slightly heavier trigger and when it was dropped, the "something" was dislodged and hence the trigger became lighter. But, if I understand correctly, it has returned to it's original pull. That kinda eliminates the foreign object theory.

    Gonna give it some more thought.
    I'm too young to be this old!
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