Meeting at George Mason about Tech next monday.

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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Meeting at George Mason VT next monday. Advice appreciated

    There is a seminar at Mason Next Monday about VA TEch and the Mindset of Cho. Check it out on VCDL's website. At the close there having times when people can stand up and say what they want to say. http://vtreviewpanel.org/meetings/ I'm thinking about speaking some of my thoughts. I wrote this in about 15 minutes its not edited yet and some of ths stuff is going to rearranged. And its more of a speech so i'm not passing it to anybody. Any criticism or help much appreciated. THanks.



    WHEN SECONDS COUNT…………………………….!
    My name is ****, I ask that you listen to what I’m about to say with an open mind because I have listened to you with an open mind. I’m 26 years of age and I am an Alumnus of a small Public Military school in South West Virginia, VMI. I grew up around guns. I started shooting when I was around 7 years old. Guys and gals like me are your neighbors, we are driving the same streets you are driving, we are shopping in the same stores you are shopping in, we are eating in the same restaurants you are sitting in, we are working to make ends meet just like you; however, the difference is we are armed.

    The flock of us here today are put into two of the three categories of people. Those categories are sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. Sheep are good people, they are law abiding, generous, kind, and conform to society, being a sheep is not a bad thing its what the majority of the people are, it is the norm. Wolves are the opposite of sheep they prey on the sheep, they are the criminal element in the world. Sheepdogs are dogs dressed in a sheep’s skin; they are individuals who take it upon themselves to protect sheep from the wolves. I personally fall into the category of sheepdog, by dressing like you, and doing what you like to do I resemble a common sheep; however, I am by no means an easy a lamb for the slaughter by the wolves like Seung-Hui Cho, coming to devour me or the flock of individuals who surround me.

    I am apart of a minority of Virginians whom carry a handgun every second of the day and everywhere we go. My personal carry gun happens to be a Glock 19 the same gun that Seung-Hui Cho used in his mass killing. Does this mean guns or Glocks kill people? Well I guess mine are defective because out of the 5 Glocks I have they have never killed or shot anybody. All my friends carry, my family carries, my co-workers carry. To me carrying a gun is not comfortable it’s comforting. I do not carry a handgun because I expect trouble lurking around every corner. I carry a handgun because I don’t expect trouble. I bet now your asking yourself well that doesn’t make any sense! It makes perfect sense ask any Cop on the street this question. If you are going to a gun fight what would you want in your hand, handgun, rifle, or a shotgun? Bet you would be surprised at the response. I look at carrying a gun very similar to the life of a rattlesnake. When a rattler is in trouble from a bigger meaner predator, it tries to slither away, when that fails and its backed into a corner it postures and flails its rattle, hoping that the threat will see it means business and go eat something else. If all else fails, it strikes releasing deadly consequences on what it hits, thus saving the rattler’s life.

    What happened at Virginia Tech was a horrible tragedy; however, what hasn’t happened as a result of Virginia Tech is even a bigger travesty. The business I’m in, I hear a lot about what happened at Tech. Most of the people are horrified that I would even consider living the same lifestyle I do after such a tragedy; however, to me it only strengthens my argument. Even at this seminar there has been a lot of talk about the demeanor and mental state that Mr. Cho was in and how the incident could have been prevented.
    As famous HBO talk show hosts Penn and Teller once said on their show “You can’t stop insane people from doing insane things, that in itself is insane!” The type of incident we saw at Tech cannot be stopped through the addition of more cameras in the classrooms, sirens on campuses, security guards, or even police officers! The only thing that you can do to possible have a different outcome is by allowing permit holders the right to have their guns in the classroom. In 180 seconds, Cho gunned down 31 people while Police Officers were still trying to get into the building. It took Law Enforcement 3 times that time to get to the shooting location, by then it was already over.

    I’m not by any means criticizing police response nor am I saying cops aren’t doing their jobs. What I am saying is they can’t be in ever place at once. I carry a spare tire because I can’t carry a jiffy lube, I carry a cell phone because a string and two cups...well find a string that is that long, and I carry a gun because I can’t carry a Cop!” Ask yourself is a civilian carrying a gun needed in a classroom? Don’t answer that just yet.

    Lets reflect back and pretend that we can go back in time. Lets say an individual was armed in one of those classrooms at VA Tech. What are the possible outcomes?

    1) Hero pulls gun shoots Cho killing him-story ends
    2) Hero pulls gun shoots him self in the leg then shoots Cho.
    3) Hero pulls gun shoots another student then shoots Cho.
    4) Cho sees Hero pull gun kills him first allowing the Corp of cadet’s student time to pick the gun up and dispatch Cho.
    5) Cho sees somebody is trying to interfere with his plan of killing every body in that classroom and says “SCREW this I’m going somewhere else”
    6) Or something else happened resulting in a different outcome then what did happen.
    7) Or Cho killed every body in the class anyway.

    FACT: Cho SLAUGHTERED those people due to NOBODY standing up against him who could present a lethal substitute. Out of the possible outcomes #1-6, I just mentioned, Virginia Tech Policies have made them Impossible. Those impossible outcomes would have been what the people in that classroom wanted at the time Cho was executing them, not what you and I want today. Example #7 Cho killed everybody in the class. That is the reality of what happened and is still the reality today with most VA college current policies.

    This is issue is not about being a dark red republican or a blue democrat. This issue is about trying to prevent a mass shooter from taking away an innocent person’s right to breath regardless of race, religion, creed, or party stance!

    I ask everybody to ask himself or herself what is acceptable in situations like this? 32 dead, 15 dead, 5 dead, or better yet bad guy just plain stopped by one of the good guys. Unless you fix current policy and allow for individuals to take their own personal security into their own hands, or teach them to through rocks at 1200 feet per second, the death toll from the innocent sheep will only grow. In a situation like Tech, a unarmed sheep banking on harsh language as a good self defense tactic against an insane gunman will only receive an F in verbal Judo on his or her report card, and another implication on their gravestone that if their had been armed response in the room they would still be with their loved ones, but a law abiding sheepdog with a concealed handgun who stands up and fights with lethal force receives an A+ in self defense, and possible lives another day!

    I leave you with the following thoughts one from the original title of this.
    January 31, 2006:

    "House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia,
    Police and Public Safety. This bill was intended to force universities to revert their policies of licensed permit holders to allow them to carry their guns on campus. To reiterate carrying a gun at VA Tech concealed is not against the law it’s a school Policy.

    ...

    Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was
    defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the
    General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students,
    faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

    When Seconds count…..Cops respond in Minutes!
    Last edited by Rob99VMI04; June 6th, 2007 at 12:47 PM.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    holy crap.....that is a great first draft....

    If I didn't have to work the morning shift I would be there....

    ...Can you carry at GMU?

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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    holy crap.....that is a great first draft....

    If I didn't have to work the morning shift I would be there....

    ...Can you carry at GMU?
    From my understanding its a School policy not a law. That basically allows me and you who don't go there to carry, but not somebody who is attending school there.

    PS IF I'M WRONG ABOUT THIS *****PLEASE LET ME KNOW*****


    § 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.

    A. If any person possesses any (i) stun weapon or taser as defined in this section; (ii) knife, except a pocket knife having a folding metal blade of less than three inches; or (iii) weapon, including a weapon of like kind, designated in subsection A of § 18.2-308, other than a firearm; upon (a) the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (c) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony; however, if the person possesses any firearm within a public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school building and intends to use, or attempts to use, such firearm, or displays such weapon in a threatening manner, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years to be served consecutively with any other sentence.

    The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.

    As used in this section:

    "Stun weapon" means any mechanism that is (i) designed to emit an electronic, magnetic, or other type of charge that exceeds the equivalency of a five milliamp 60 hertz shock and (ii) used for the purpose of temporarily incapacitating a person; and

    "Taser" means any mechanism that is (i) designed to emit an electronic, magnetic, or other type of charge or shock through the use of a projectile and (ii) used for the purpose of temporarily incapacitating a person.
    Last edited by Rob99VMI04; June 6th, 2007 at 02:23 PM.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Draft 2

    WHEN SECONDS COUNT…………………………….!
    My name is ****, I ask that you listen to what I’m about to say with an open mind because I have listened to you with an open mind. I’m 26 years of age and I am an Alumnus of a small Public Military school in South West Virginia, VMI. I grew up around guns. I started shooting when I was around 7 years old. Guys and gals like me are your neighbors, we are driving the same streets you are driving, we are shopping in the same stores you are shopping in, we are eating in the same restaurants you are sitting in, we are working to make ends meet just like you; however, the difference is we are armed.

    The flock of us here today are put into two of the three categories of people. Those categories are sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. Sheep are good people, they are law abiding, generous, kind, and conform to society, being a sheep is not a bad thing its what the majority of the people are, it is the norm. Wolves are the opposite of sheep they prey on the sheep, they are the criminal element in the world. Sheepdogs are dogs dressed in a sheep’s skin; they are individuals who take it upon themselves to protect sheep from the wolves. I personally fall into the category of sheepdog, by dressing like you, and doing what you like to do I resemble a common sheep; however, I am by no means an easy a lamb for the slaughter by the wolves like Seung-Hui Cho, coming to devour me or the flock of individuals who surround me.

    I am apart of a minority of Virginians whom carry a handgun every second of the day and everywhere we go provided it is legal to do so. My personal carry gun happens to be a Glock 19 the same model gun that Seung-Hui Cho used in his mass killing. Does this mean guns or Glocks kill people? Well I guess mine are defective because out of the 5 Glocks I have they have never killed or shot anybody. All my friends carry, my family carries, my co-workers carry. To me carrying a gun is not comfortable it’s comforting. I do not carry a handgun because I expect trouble lurking around every corner. I carry a handgun because I don’t expect trouble. I bet now your asking yourself well that doesn’t make any sense! It makes perfect sense ask any Cop on the street this question. If you are going to a gun fight what would you want in your hand, handgun, rifle, or a shotgun? Bet you would be surprised at the response. I look at carrying a gun very similar to the life of a rattlesnake. When a rattler is in trouble from a bigger meaner predator, it tries to slither away, when that fails and its backed into a corner it postures and flails its rattle, hoping that the threat will see it means business and go eat something else. If all else fails, it strikes releasing deadly consequences on what it hits, thus saving the rattler’s life.

    What happened at Virginia Tech was a horrible tragedy; however, what hasn’t happened as a result of Virginia Tech is even a bigger travesty. The business I’m in, I hear a lot about what happened at Tech. Most of the people are horrified that I would even consider living the same lifestyle I do after such a tragedy; however, to me it only strengthens my argument. Even at this seminar there has been a lot of talk about the demeanor and mental state that Mr. Cho was in and how the incident could have been prevented.
    As famous HBO talk show hosts Penn and Teller once said on their show “You can’t stop insane people from doing insane things, that in itself is insane!” The type of incident we saw at Tech cannot be stopped through the addition of more cameras in the classrooms, sirens on campuses, security guards, or even police officers! The only thing that you can do to possible have a different outcome is by allowing permit holders the right to have their guns in the classroom. In 180 seconds, Cho gunned down 31 people while Police Officers were still trying to get into the building. It took Law Enforcement 3 times that time to get to the shooting location, by then it was already over.

    I’m not by any means criticizing police response nor am I saying cops aren’t doing their jobs. What I am saying is they can’t be in ever place at once. I carry a spare tire because I can’t carry a jiffy lube, I carry a cell phone because a string and two cups...well find a string that is that long, and I carry a gun because I can’t carry a Cop!” Ask yourself is a civilian carrying a gun needed in a classroom? Don’t answer that just yet.

    Lets reflect back and pretend that we can go back in time. Play this like you would a game of Craps in Vegas. What are the possible outcomes?

    1) Student pulls gun, shoots Cho killing him, the dice of survival just rolled a 6 and a 1 Lucky number 7.
    2) Student pulls gun shoots himself in the leg then shoots Cho, the dice rolled a 5 and a 2 Lucky number 7.
    3) Student pulls gun shoots another student then shoots Cho, this time dice turned an 11.
    4) Cho sees student pull gun kills him first allowing the Corp of cadet’s student time to pick the gun up and dispatch Cho, this time the dice turned another 11.
    5) Cho sees somebody is trying to interfere with his plan of killing every body in that classroom and says “SCREW this I’m going somewhere else” Lucky number 7.
    6) Or something else happened resulting in a different outcome then what did happen.
    7) Or Cho killed every body in the class anyway. The dice turned to1 and 1 or snake eyes.

    FACT: Cho SLAUGHTERED those people due to NOBODY standing up against him who could present a lethal substitute. Out of the possible outcomes #1-6, I just mentioned, Virginia Tech Policies have made them Impossible. Those impossible outcomes would have been what the people in that classroom wanted at the time Cho was executing them, not what you and I want today. Example #7 Cho killed everybody in the class. That is the reality of what happened and is still the reality today with most VA college current policies. In this life game of Craps, the only option for everybody there was to roll snake eyes on every turn.

    This is issue is not about being a dark red republican or a blue democrat. This issue is about trying to prevent a mass shooter from taking away an innocent person’s right to breath regardless of race, religion, creed, or political affiliation!

    I ask everybody to ask him or herself what is acceptable in situations like this? 32 dead, 15 dead, 5 dead, or better yet bad guy just plain stopped by one of the good guys. Unless you fix current policy and allow for individuals to take their own personal security into their own hands, or teach them to through rocks at 1200 feet per second, the death toll from the innocent sheep will only grow. In a situation like Tech, a unarmed sheep banking on harsh language as a good self defense tactic against an insane gunman will only receive an F in verbal Judo on his or her report card, and another implication on their gravestone that if there had been an armed response in the room, they would still be with their loved ones. But a law abiding sheepdog with a concealed handgun who stands up and fights with lethal force receives an A+ in self defense, and possibly lives another day!

    I leave you with the following thoughts one from the original title of this.
    January 31, 2006:

    "House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia,
    Police and Public Safety. This bill was intended to force universities to reverts their policies of licensed permit holders to allow them to carry their guns on campus. To reiterate carrying a gun at VA Tech concealed is not against the law, it’s a bad school policy.

    ...

    Virginia Tech spokesman was happy to hear the bill was
    defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the
    General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students,
    faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

    When Seconds count…..help is only minutes away!
    Last edited by Rob99VMI04; June 6th, 2007 at 03:09 PM.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

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    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Just my $0.02 worth Rob99. Overall I think it is pretty good. I don't know that I would use the sheep, sheepdog, wolf analogy though. We gun folks know all about it but the sheep don't and probably won't like being called a sheep. By calling yourself a sheepdog you could be perceived as a hero wannabe or worse a vigilante.

    I would stress the following; Basically their "no guns" rule only gives the perception of being safe when in reality it does nothing to make anyone safe. Their signs have stopped and will stop no one. Second and most important it takes away your right to self protection. If they can't guarantee your safety they should not hinder your ability to protect yourself in any way. If they won't do that the only signs they should post to be honest are ones that say, "Enter At Your Own Risk".

    They will argue that guns do not belong in a school or learning environment I would guess. To this I would counter that my gun, for my self protection, for that is what it's purpose is, does belong there and poses no threat to anyone else. You as a CC permit holder have had the background checks Cho never had. As a result your being armed may in fact be the only tool available to save others if another incident like VT should occur.

    Hope this helps a little.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

    Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
    NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
    Utah Permit Certified Instructor

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    Just my $0.02 worth Rob99. Overall I think it is pretty good. I don't know that I would use the sheep, sheepdog, wolf analogy though. We gun folks know all about it but the sheep don't and probably won't like being called a sheep. By calling yourself a sheepdog you could be perceived as a hero wannabe or worse a vigilante.


    Your right I've shown it to a couple of folks here at work and some have said the same thing about the sheep vs. dog analogy. I'm trying to cut it down, and or re-word.


    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    Just I would stress the following; Basically their "no guns" rule only gives the perception of being safe when in reality it does nothing to make anyone safe. Their signs have stopped and will stop no one. Second and most important it takes away your right to self protection. If they can't guarantee your safety they should not hinder your ability to protect yourself in any way. If they won't do that the only signs they should post to be honest are ones that say, "Enter At Your Own Risk".



    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    Just They will argue that guns do not belong in a school or learning environment I would guess. To this I would counter that my gun, for my self protection, for that is what it's purpose is, does belong there and poses no threat to anyone else. You as a CC permit holder have had the background checks Cho never had. As a result your being armed may in fact be the only tool available to save others if another incident like VT should occur.
    Its funny I showed this to a physch major and he explained about people perceiving the way you come accross in your speech and how you should not say harsh things because they will only be put on the defensive. Well I got till Sunday so....hummm its a living animal still.


    Hope this helps a little.[/QUOTE]
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Robb99 when I write something I rewrite, then rewrite, then have my wife check it out, then rewrite some more. I'm never satisfied but it sure helps to have someone else give their take on what you are trying to say. It surprises me how I can not be clear as a bell when I think I am being thus at times.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

    Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
    NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
    Utah Permit Certified Instructor

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