Class 3 firearm question

Class 3 firearm question

This is a discussion on Class 3 firearm question within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I had a quick question about the class 3 firearms. I understand if I wish to aquire one (suppressor or coach gun) I need to ...

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Thread: Class 3 firearm question

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Class 3 firearm question

    I had a quick question about the class 3 firearms.

    I understand if I wish to aquire one (suppressor or coach gun) I need to fill out a bunch of forms and pay a $200 tax. I hate that, but understand it.

    My question is: Does that mean that your "class 3" weapon is now registered with the federal government?

    I am wondering because with the current climate, I can easily see a senario where such weapons are completely banned and collected by force using the registration process as a tool to facilitate such actions.

    I am not looking to purchase any such weapons anytime soon, it is merely curiosity at this moment.

    Thank you for any answers.

    Shadowsbane
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

    www.Lonelymountainleather.com


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    I would say it does .. As the Serial # of said class 3 item is on the tax stamp ..

    Hopefully one of the class 3 people will come along and tell ya for sure

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Yeah it's registered with the batfe. Although, the process isn't as painful as it sounds IF you do it the smart way. If you're going to do it, buy yourself quicken wilmaker and form a revocable living trust. Many states (like mine - VA) don't even require you to register the trust with the county courthouse or anything else that wastes yours or their time. Once you have your trust set up (took me 20 minutes), go to the dealer, pick your firearm and start on the forms. You fill the owner portion out with the name of the trust. You don't need fingerprints (cuts down on time big time), you don't need a photo (again - time consuming), and you don't need a CLEO signoff (time consuming and frustrating if they refuse). I got my stamp back(about a month ago) from the BATFE in 2 and half weeks. From what I hear if you go through the process as an individual it can take anywhere between 3 and 6 MONTHS or more. Go the trust route. It's fast, and easy.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    that's an interesting idea. So, a gun can be owned by and registered to a trust? I didn't know that.

    One of the big reasons I don't want to get into NFA items (besides the hugely inflated cost and all the ammo I would burn) is the registration. I'd rather be relegated to 16"+ semi-autos, and not have them on-file.

  5. #5
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    A couple other things to remember regarding Class 3 items is:

    1) You can not loan them to anyone. While you can let other people shoot them, you have to be present and remain control over the weapon. For example, if you have a full auto UZI or 12 inch sawed off shotgun for a home defense gun and you go out of town on business, you can not leave it with your wife to use while you are away. It will have to be secured where no one else can have access to it.

    2) You are allowed to "will" your Class 3 weapon to someone upon your death without them having to pay all the fee's. It's my understanding the person you will your weapon to only has to be able to legally possess the weapon. ie, background check.

    3) Noise suppressors are only legal in 35 states regardless of the Federal Class 3 stamp. For instance, in Missouri, you may legally own a machine gun or short barreled weapon with a tax stamp but noise suppressors are forbidden except for military or law enforcement.

    4) If you have a Class 3 shotgun with 12 or 14 inch barrel and then put a legal 18 or 20 inch barrel on the weapon it is still a Class 3 weapon and therefore you still can't loan it to anyone even with the longer barrel placed on it.

    I hope this helps. If I am not accurate with any of this info, please post and let me know.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  6. #6
    Member Array Protect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    A couple other things to remember regarding Class 3 items is:

    1) You can not loan them to anyone. While you can let other people shoot them, you have to be present and remain control over the weapon. For example, if you have a full auto UZI or 12 inch sawed off shotgun for a home defense gun and you go out of town on business, you can not leave it with your wife to use while you are away. It will have to be secured where no one else can have access to it.

    2) You are allowed to "will" your Class 3 weapon to someone upon your death without them having to pay all the fee's. It's my understanding the person you will your weapon to only has to be able to legally possess the weapon. ie, background check.

    3) Noise suppressors are only legal in 35 states regardless of the Federal Class 3 stamp. For instance, in Missouri, you may legally own a machine gun or short barreled weapon with a tax stamp but noise suppressors are forbidden except for military or law enforcement.

    4) If you have a Class 3 shotgun with 12 or 14 inch barrel and then put a legal 18 or 20 inch barrel on the weapon it is still a Class 3 weapon and therefore you still can't loan it to anyone even with the longer barrel placed on it.

    I hope this helps. If I am not accurate with any of this info, please post and let me know.
    How does (1) work in the case where the firearm/surpressor is owned by a Trust?
    "When a man attempts to deal with me by force, I answer himóby force.
    "... No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had the right to choose: his own." -John Galt, Atlas Shrugged

  7. #7
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    I am not sure about weapons registered in the name of a Trust. I first learned about being able to do that from packinnova in post #3. I am interested in finding more about how that works myself.

    Regardless, if your state bans suppressors, and 15 of them do, it doesn't matter if it's in the name of a "trust" or not. They are only allowed by a LEO Agency or Military, period!

    I know, it sucks! It's like that here in Missouri. I would rather have a suppressor than a fully automatic anyway.

    Ok, maybe not totally true... I still want a full auto. My nephew has a full auto short barrel UZI. It's sweet!

    Hang around here longer and someone will probably give you an answer, or call ATF or visit their website. I'm sure ATF will be able to tell you everything you are needing to know. They are pretty helpful on the two times I've contacted them.
    Last edited by Bark'n; June 21st, 2007 at 03:34 AM.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    The trustee has possession.
    I have a bunch of bookmarks somehwere on my home computer of various informations I've found from others going through the process in different states. I'll try to remember to post them if I can find them later this evening when I get home.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    trust is an interesting idea, IIRC there may be multiple "trustees"

    I was looking into doing this through an LLC to allow multiple storage locations, and multiple users (?)

    I really like the idea of a trust for this purpose as it would be less expensive to institute...

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR D View Post
    trust is an interesting idea, IIRC there may be multiple "trustees"

    I was looking into doing this through an LLC to allow multiple storage locations, and multiple users (?)

    I really like the idea of a trust for this purpose as it would be less expensive to institute...
    Yeah that was one of many reasons why I didn't do the LLC route. A) the expense. For me for just a suppressor here and there it's not worth the expense to go the LLC route. B) What happens when your LLC dissolves? ...that's right...you have to get rid of the items(ie transfer to another party or trust) in question or transfer the ownership from the llc to yourself as an individual and do that WHOLE PROCESS all over again. Then there's that whole mess of meetings and other such things that are requirements for the LLC...oh and the taxes and such nonsense. I don't have to deal with any of that as a trust. And the trust doesn't and/or can't dissolve unless I say so. It's indefinite, but Revocable by me (if I so choose).

    Oh yeah...total cost for the trust route - not including the gun(for me anyway)...$34 for the quicken willmaker software, $200 for the stamp. I'll take that over the corp setup costs ANY DAY.
    Last edited by packinnova; June 21st, 2007 at 12:02 PM. Reason: forgot to add
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Shadowsbane- I really would not invest the time or money, at the moment. While all firearms are, at some point, "registered", Class III is at the forefront. And, no, you might well not have any warning, if the Fed decides that ClassIII is "dangerous" or "unnecessary".

    The USAS 12 shotgun is the best example. Literally overnight it was declared a "Destructive Device", subject to the tax stamp, state laws governing DDs,and ATFE registration. The ATF used the manufacturer's and dealers' records to track them down. So, if for example ,you lived in CA at the time, and had legally purchased a USAS 12, you basically had to surrender it to the ATF regional office, since (IIRC) DDs were not legal in CA. No reimbursement, no legal recourse.

    FYI, as a Federal agency, the ATF may issue a "Finding",which, in their area of responsibility, essentially creates a new law.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Yeah, I have nowhere near the funds required to purchase a weapon requiring a tax stamp at the moment. But I was interested in the legalities of it. Mostly because of the possibility of such items being taken away at a later date.

    Thanks everybody for the info...it has been very inlightening.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

    www.Lonelymountainleather.com

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