9mm 147 Gr JHP supposedly Unsat?

This is a discussion on 9mm 147 Gr JHP supposedly Unsat? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Hi Folks, A friend sent me a primer on self defense ammo signed anonymous which came from Chuck Hawks website. It strongly suggested that 147 ...

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Thread: 9mm 147 Gr JHP supposedly Unsat?

  1. #1
    New Member Array shovel99's Avatar
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    9mm 147 Gr JHP supposedly Unsat?

    Hi Folks,
    A friend sent me a primer on self defense ammo signed anonymous which came from Chuck Hawks website. It strongly suggested that 147 grain JHP's were a very bad choice of ammo for 9mm.

    I have read a great deal about defensive ammo, and currently have and carry Winchester Ranger XT, the civilian legal form of what was Black Talon... both supposed to be very effective rounds... 147 grain. Does this guy know what he is talking about, and why any 147 grain round is bad? Too little velocity to open up? ( F=MA)

    Thanks, shovel99.

    PS I have about a dozen 9mm and the Kahr PM9 is at the top of my list... and pocket.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    We had a thread a couple of weeks ago that discussed the advantages of lightweight vs heavyweight bullets for self defense. There's not much 9mm specific info there, but you may want to take a look for some general discussion of the effect of bullet weight vs. velocity on terminal performance.

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    Member Array frostyeyes's Avatar
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    Lets see if I can get this link right http://www.frag.110mb.com/ this guy tried several 9MM rounds and wrote up his experience along with some very good pics of several bullets before and after
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    I've never tried the 147-grain 9mms, so I'm afraid I cannot add much to that discussion, but welcome to the forum!

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    Member Array Schwebel's Avatar
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    Everyone has their jilted opinions, but from what I've seen the 147gr 9mm is a good self defense round, I carry 147gr HST JHP's. They have good velocity and expansion. That being said, the human body is no water jug. These "tests" sometimes seem a little worthless, they don't take into account bone and different density tissue mass. A bullet may never expand because of where it hit, not because it is a bad round. Again shot placement is more important than anything. A non expanded .22 to the heart is better than a full mushroom .45 through the leg. I've seen probally 50 gunshot wounds in my lifetime and 95% seemed like the bullet didn't expand very much, if any at all. The only ones that seemed "mushroom" were head shots, most likely cause the cranial cavity is probally as close to a water jug as you are going to get. I say buy what seems to shoot well for you, any good quality SD labeled ammo, no matter what the weight or type, should be sufficent for SD.

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    Member Array floridaguy911's Avatar
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    I dont know about 147, but I understand that 9mm platform was designed around a 124gr bullet I believe. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
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    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    My info maybe screwed but I think the FBI had some difficulties with the early 147 gr loadings. Maybe someone else can clear this up but weren't they trying to shoot the subsonic loads that are better suited for SMG's and getting marginal results out of them? I thought I remembered reading about that sometime ago. I don't personally carry 147gr. in my 9mm. I carry 124 gr. +p.
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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    When i carried a 9mm that is one of the rounds i carried was the 147SXT Does it work can't say never shot anyone but worked well for follow up shots on deer

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Back when 147gr 9mm JHP or ball had slower velocities and half the energy as they do now (for some of the hotter loads), the on-street performance was documented as being fair to poor, with some highly-publicized results showing awful/deadly failure to stop.

    Given the questions about expansion, I tend to prefer faster bullets, but I do want plenty of weight to get the job done. I carry the DoubleTap 9mm JHP 124gr +P round, which is advertised at 470 ft-lbs @ 1300 fps. Haven't seen verification of the energy number, but many folks have duplicated the velocity via chrono. Simple tests on country hams and a side of beef in the field showed dramatic expansion and very large/ugly tracks and exit wounds. (Didn't take photos those days, sadly.)

    If 147gr was available at similar performance levels, I'd probably opt for that. Even so, the DT 9mm JHP 147gr still delivers above 400 ft-lbs muzzle energy. Being a Speer Gold Dot bullet, it probably has as much chance of expanding as anything out there, but the velocity in this size from DT is 'only' 1125 fps. I prefer faster, to help with the expansion.

    Carried 147gr JHP Remington Golden Sabers in my Browning BDM for years. It was the best-feeding and -cycling round I could find, though it was a bid down on performance. Was nowhere near DT's level, though.
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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    This study begs to differ that 147gr so't work so good.

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    Senior Member Array Sig229's Avatar
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    Hmmm.....
    I always thought the 147gr. 9mm rounds were more ideal for sub machine guns in 9mm. Such as the UZI, MP5 and such.
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    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    I'm under the same impression. Weren't 147 gr. 9mm loads originally build/intended as carbine & sub-gun ammo? I recall some NATO (surplus) 147 gr. 9mm boxes being marked that way.

    Like some of the other posters, I'm sold on the 124 gr. +P (or +P+) 9mm.
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    Member Array Whyveear's Avatar
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    San Diego PD found it to perform well: http://www.btammolabs.com/fackler/winchester_9mm.pdf

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    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness



    This does not get caliber specific, but it explains how it works.

  16. #15
    Member Array SCGunGuy's Avatar
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    I have read in various places that early 147 grain rounds did not perform well in all instances. As times and designs change, so did the 147 grain rounds, and a well-designed 147 grain round today will perform as well as a well-designed 9mm round of another weight. A # of large PDs have had good success with them, and info on TacticalForums, Firearmstactical.com and other places gives me no reason to doubt the current 147 grain rounds.

    FWIW, I carry RA9T, the 147 grain Winchester Ranger T round.

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