Questions concerning unlicensed carry in personal vehicle: Florida

Questions concerning unlicensed carry in personal vehicle: Florida

This is a discussion on Questions concerning unlicensed carry in personal vehicle: Florida within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Questions concerning unlicensed carry in personal vehicle: Florida I have a question for individuals, who have knowledge of Florida Gun Laws. I currently do not ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array juking's Avatar
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    Questions concerning unlicensed carry in personal vehicle: Florida

    Questions concerning unlicensed carry in personal vehicle: Florida
    I have a question for individuals, who have knowledge of Florida Gun Laws. I currently do not have a CWP. I am told that it is legal to carry a loaded handgun in the glove box, of my personal vehicle. I will keep it in condition #1.
    My question is this: Is this legal, or am I asking for trouble if I get pulled over? Do I announce to LE that I have a gun, or do they always ask these days? If by chance I need to use it in a life or death situation (attempted robbery of myself, car jacking, etc.).. what are some examples of justifiable use scenarios?

    Also, I own a shotgun and handgun for home defense purposes. I keep both loaded at all times. The square mile radius around my house has the highest crime rate in my county. I enjoy working on projects at night, in my attached garage (with the doors open). I keep my pistol in a box within reach. If by chance I need it to protect myself, what are some examples of justifiable use scenarios? I am somewhat familiar with the FL Castle Doctrine, and "meeting force with force".
    semper fi


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Juking,

    I recommend you pick up a copy of Guttmacher's Florida Firearms.
    It will give you the best information from a lawyer qualified to answer these questions definitively.

    Now, IANAL, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I did finish the book this week.

    With that, yes, you are legal to carry in your car as long as the gun is in a secure case, which includes the console or glovebox as long as they close/latch. Condition 1 is not a problem.

    You will have varying opinions on whether or not to inform LE if pulled. Some think that the 2nd Amendment should supercede any other consideration. Others believe that it is best for safety and as courtesy to LE to inform. Your decision. Obviously, if asked, you would need to decide whether or not to disclose, and the consequences if you don't disclose and are subsequently discovered to have a loaded weapon.

    As far as justifiable use of force, there are many, many scenarios. But, if you are in imminent fear for your life, or in fear of imminent and grave bodily harm, or personally see a forcible felony, you would probably be okay to shoot to 'stop the threat.'

    FL's Castle Doctrine now presumes that if someone has broken into your house, or is trying to, that they are committing a forcible felony and you have the right to shoot to stop the threat. If the person sees you armed, and turns to run, or is out the door and headed away, you most likely do not have the right to shoot since the use of force would not seem imminent.

    It is far more complex than this, but that is a start.
    Pick up the book. It is more detailed, comprehensive and written by someone with far more credentials than me.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  3. #3
    Member Array juking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    Juking,

    I recommend you pick up a copy of Guttmacher's Florida Firearms.
    It will give you the best information from a lawyer qualified to answer these questions definitively.

    Now, IANAL, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I did finish the book this week.

    With that, yes, you are legal to carry in your car as long as the gun is in a secure case, which includes the console or glovebox as long as they close/latch. Condition 1 is not a problem.

    You will have varying opinions on whether or not to inform LE if pulled. Some think that the 2nd Amendment should supercede any other consideration. Others believe that it is best for safety and as courtesy to LE to inform. Your decision. Obviously, if asked, you would need to decide whether or not to disclose, and the consequences if you don't disclose and are subsequently discovered to have a loaded weapon.

    As far as justifiable use of force, there are many, many scenarios. But, if you are in imminent fear for your life, or in fear of imminent and grave bodily harm, or personally see a forcible felony, you would probably be okay to shoot to 'stop the threat.'

    FL's Castle Doctrine now presumes that if someone has broken into your house, or is trying to, that they are committing a forcible felony and you have the right to shoot to stop the threat. If the person sees you armed, and turns to run, or is out the door and headed away, you most likely do not have the right to shoot since the use of force would not seem imminent.

    It is far more complex than this, but that is a start.
    Pick up the book. It is more detailed, comprehensive and written by someone with far more credentials than me.
    thanks for the information. I actually purchased the latest edition from the local Sheriff Dept. last year. I have not yet read the entire book yet..It's a very good book. I suppose that one area that I am most concerned about is the duty to retreat from my garage..the doors are open. I am out there in the wee hours of the morning. Thanks..
    semper fi

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juking View Post
    thanks for the information. I actually purchased the latest edition from the local Sheriff Dept. last year. I have not yet read the entire book yet..It's a very good book. I suppose that one area that I am most concerned about is the duty to retreat from my garage..the doors are open. I am out there in the wee hours of the morning. Thanks..
    My understanding is that if you are on your property, you are therefore covered by the Castle Doctrine. If someone wanders into your home, doors open or not, you are in YOUR castle. If you feel the person is a threat...

    Anyway, enjoy reading. There are enough stories/examples to help keep it a little more readable. Although I can't believe that I just said that ANYTHING by a lawyer is enjoyable.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  5. #5
    Member Array juking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    My understanding is that if you are on your property, you are therefore covered by the Castle Doctrine. If someone wanders into your home, doors open or not, you are in YOUR castle. If you feel the person is a threat...

    Anyway, enjoy reading. There are enough stories/examples to help keep it a little more readable. Although I can't believe that I just said that ANYTHING by a lawyer is enjoyable.
    I understand that open carry is legal on private property (driveways included)..maybe I'm wrong about this..http://opencarry.org/
    semper fi

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by juking View Post
    I understand that open carry is legal on private property (driveways included)..maybe I'm wrong about this..http://opencarry.org/
    miklcolt45 is correct with all he has added...(Greetings Mike...)

    But...

    I'm not sure that I'd walk around, even on my property, with an exposed gun...

    Suggestion: Why not elminate all problems and get your CCW? Then you have covered a host of potential problems with your 'licensed' right to carry a firearm. It can be on your person 24/7.

    You could take the course in an afternoon and have you license in a month or two...

    Stay armed...stay safe!

    ret
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  7. #7
    Senior Member Array tegemu's Avatar
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    Check out www.floridashootersnetwork.com . Lots of resources on Fla and guns there.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence in their behalf. - George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by juking View Post
    thanks for the information. I actually purchased the latest edition from the local Sheriff Dept. last year. I have not yet read the entire book yet..It's a very good book. I suppose that one area that I am most concerned about is the duty to retreat from my garage..the doors are open. I am out there in the wee hours of the morning. Thanks..
    This would be an interesting question to submit to Mr. Gutmacher for an opinion.

    Florida Statute 776.013 defines "dwelling" as "a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night."

    An attached porch is specifically included, but garages are not mentioned.

    However, the "duty to retreat" is not an issue anymore, as stated in F.S. 776.013:

    "A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

    The difference here, from my understanding, is that if you are in your residence, there are two presumptions in the law:

    1. The person unlawfully entering your residence does so with the intent of committing a violent crime, and
    2. The resident who uses deadly force to repel such an intruder is presumed to have done so in reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm.

    If you are not in your residence, then those two presumptions do not apply. You still do not have a duty to retreat, provided you are in a place where you are lawfully entitled to be.

    My understanding is that in your home, you are operating under the Castle Doctrine, while in the garage, the "stand your ground" provision applies.

    As with other posters, I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array ron8903's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    miklcolt45 is correct with all he has added...(Greetings Mike...)

    But...

    I'm not sure that I'd walk around, even on my property, with an exposed gun...

    Suggestion: Why not elminate all problems and get your CCW? Then you have covered a host of potential problems with your 'licensed' right to carry a firearm. It can be on your person 24/7.

    You could take the course in an afternoon and have you license in a month or two...

    Stay armed...stay safe!

    ret
    That is the best advice I read yet on this subject.
    And that is what I tell people that ask me that question.
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
    - Sir Winston Churchill

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