July 20th, 2007 04:50 PM
What's your opinion on these? are they worth the increased cost?
Do they preform as advertised?
It is not wrong to be Right
An apeaser is a man who hopes that the crocidle eats him last
July 20th, 2007 04:57 PM
I've played with them on a few range rentals and they did perform well.
They offer some training advantages, the laser does not lie, if your a trigger jerker, the laser will tell you.
I find them to be more appleaing than other style lasers, and have toyed with getting a set.
I can see the advantage when training / utilizing point shooting / and low light scenarios.
If I were an LEO I would definately pick up a set, but as a private citizen, I just don't feel the overall need.
As for the price being justified? I don't think it is, lasers are not all that expensive these days, and all the grip is is just a regular rubber grip.
Basicly your paying for R&D costs, and that just doesn't sit right with me.
I think some of the draw backs is that some feel you may start to focus more on the laser than the actual sights, but I guess that all depends on how you empoly the laser.
I like the fact that there's no real on/off switch to ACTIVATE the laser in a time of need. While there is the master on/off switch, I prefer the location of the button on the front of the grip (most models) than the on/off switch of a LaserMax unit.
July 20th, 2007 05:02 PM
I bought a set of CT lasers for my wife's S & W 637...seems to work well and she likes them. I would not put them on my EDC, but that's just a personal thing.
For my wife, it helps tell me why she can't hit the ground when aim 'down...
Stay armed...stay safe!
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
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NRA Life Member[/B]
July 20th, 2007 07:01 PM
I've got Laser Max on the wife's G36 that she likes. She doesn't practice enough and I feel better knowing she can point shoot with it in a less than perfect situation.
I put Crimson Trace grips on a SPR 1911 that doesn't have night sights and also on a SP101. They are just another tool to me, but for point shooting and at night they are pretty good. At night they can take the place of a flashlight and lighting up someone with the laser might keep one from having to shoot them. Even the pets hate it when you put the dot on them.
I agree though, relying on them is not the wisest thing ...Murphy's law.
July 20th, 2007 07:17 PM
I have been toying with the idea of CT on the wife's SP-101. I just think It would be an added benifit considering she only has 5 rounds before reload is a must. She is a pretty good shot, but like most of us... could always use more range time. And like JD says, they are a great training aid... The laser doesn't lie.
However she has been trying out my XD9sc to see about changing from the Ruger to the XD but so far, still likes the Ruger better. If she stays with the SP-101 I'll get her the Crimson Trace laser grips, If she wants an XD9sc, I'll save the money for the new gun.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
July 20th, 2007 09:49 PM
Bought a set for the wife's CCW a Taurus .357 it gives her confidence and helps her accuracy a heap, in short go buy them, N if she does not want them all the time the there is a off switch.
"The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
July 20th, 2007 10:04 PM
July 20th, 2007 10:07 PM
On a side note* Crimson Trace is coming out with a model for the new Smith&Wesson M&P (full size only)
July 20th, 2007 10:16 PM
July 20th, 2007 10:24 PM
I don't have laser "grips", but I have a laser sight on my Kel-Tec P-3AT.
This is why I like it a lot...
1. I'm on target faster.
2. I'm more accurate.
3. It's better and faster than iron sights in low light and especially in the dark.
4. I can shoot from almost any body position with either hand or both hands very accurately.
5. It's as fast as point shooting, but much more accurate.
6. My head doesn't have to be in line or level with the gun.
7. I can see peripherally much better.
8. Wearing multi-focal eyeglasses requires acquiring the correct focal portion of the glasses as well as acquiring sight alignment and sight picture (I wear trifocals). Not necessary with the laser.
9. With some multi-focal eyeglass wearers if the sights are in focus the target isn't or visa-versa. The laser requires only viewing the target and not the gun.
10. The laser helps with trigger pull and natural pointing during dry fire and hot fire practice.
11. The iron sights are still there if you want them.
July 20th, 2007 10:25 PM
I have three sets on my SIG's and three on revo's - love em. This includes my EDC 226 ST.
I will stress as I always do - they are NOT primary sighting devices - batteries/contacts can fail. They are purely an adjunct - there if needed.
All practice with a laser fitted gun should be as if they are not there - presentation, sighting even point type shooting .... forget the lasers.
If however push comes to shove and light is lower than normal - they can IMO be lifesavers, even to the xtent that it would be possible to shoot from cover and not have gun in front of face trying to sight.
I do NOT as std practice ever seek the red dot - I shoot as normal but if light lower the spot will be seen anyways almost by default. They are useful as heck IMO for dry fire and draw practice .... much easier to see grip inconsistencies etc.
As QK mentioned I think - not cheap - any of them but I favor CT's myself - very well engineered.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
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July 20th, 2007 11:01 PM
I currently have a set on my Glock M27 (40) and was able to convince the members of my IDPA club to let me run a match without being part of the official match results just to see how they perform. Since we are a teaching club the membership readily agreed. They were curious, too.
My times were significantly better as was my performance and accuracy in shooting on the move. It was pretty easy to pick up the dot in broad daylight. I had it "zeroed" to about 25 yards. In effect at any distance from muzzle to 25 yards my round was synchronized with the pistol sights. That little red dot sat right on top of the front sight. I was able to shift the location of the dot by using this teeny tiny allen wrench into similarly sized holes on the top and sides of the module.
First: The beam becomes visible in any amount of gunsmoke or other particulate matter in the air. That line can be drawn directly back to your position.
Second: You can have what you think is a steady hold and your sight picture is stable. Yet the laser dot seems to shake violently.
Your eye can't detect the subtle differences presented by your breathing and pulse rate and firing nerve endings. The Laser does and then amplifies that movement in exactly the way an angle seems to grow from minute to large over distance.
It's like looking thru a high power scope or pair of binoculars without a rest. To an outside observer you seem to be steady. However the image inside may be jumping if you're tired or stressed.
The unintended effect of this is to convey the perception to the target that you might be petrified. Scared. A scared opponent is both more dangerous and more easy to overcome. The bad guys know this.
The intent of a laser is PRIMARILY to accurately put rounds on the target if it is properly zeroed. This task it performs pretty well.
The secondary desired effect is to act as a deterrence to further aggression once the threat sees the dot image on their person and know he's in the sights of a firearm. I don't think it's very effective as a deterrent because the violently shaking dot may act as incentive that the holder of the gun trained on them won't hit even if he does fire and may then be overcome.
I still have the laser module on my Glock M27, but I rarely wear the gun as EDC.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
July 26th, 2007 03:58 AM
I have both the Laser Max and Crimson Trace. The CT is much brighter and can even be used in daylight unlike the LM. I called LM to complain as there is such a big difference in brightest. They acknowledged this and said it was because they were limited in the size of the apeture due to design limitations. I wish I knew this before I bought it.
To directly answer your question- the Crimson Trace laser grips are great especially in low light and on fast moving targets. They are even good to trian newbies in how little movement of the gun means you are off target a lot.
It seems the only people who do not like the CT lasers are people who never used them. The company has the best customer service I ever experienced. I had some problem installing the batteries on one unit, called the factory and they sent out a new unit which I got in 4 days and before I even returned the original unit.
July 26th, 2007 08:03 AM
I have both the CT (on my 1911) and Lasermax on my 642 and side by side comparison shows no difference in brightness after switching the lasermax from pulse to steady.I did have a warranty issue with the lasermax in that the POI screws were not working. They replaced the grips no problem.For my old eyes, the lasers and red dots are a blessing.An added benefit is that you can get a better feel for point shooting with the laser without actually firing any rounds.The laser also shows you if you have had too much coffee or are slapping the trigger.All in all they have made it easier for me to be a better shooter despite the common eye problems that start as we age a bit.
July 26th, 2007 11:33 AM
crimson grips are the best.
they work awesome and well worth the money
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