New Baby Eagle.......surprise
This is a discussion on New Baby Eagle.......surprise within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I bought a new MR, Baby Eagle, IWI 45 today. Got home and went to the shop and broke it down to clean and inspect ...
July 22nd, 2007 01:01 AM
New Baby Eagle.......surprise
I bought a new MR, Baby Eagle, IWI 45 today. Got home and went to the shop and broke it down to clean and inspect before firing. Lo and behold...........no rifling in the barrel. Guess that speaks volumns about their QC.
Needless to say will be making a trip back to the dealer on Monday.
July 22nd, 2007 01:10 AM
NO rifling??? That is incredible!!!!!!!
My BFR is MR but (knocks on wood) has thus far been a stellar purchase. Just can't envisage a gun being ''let out'' smooth bore!!
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
July 22nd, 2007 01:18 AM
I want to see pics of this.
July 22nd, 2007 01:40 AM
1943 - 2009
Keep us posted on this, PLEASE!
I'd like to hear an explanation (excuse?) how this gun slipped past the QC inspectors!
When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
And go to your God like a soldier.
July 22nd, 2007 02:43 AM
Maybe it's the new Baby Eagle muzzle loader and you got the very first one! I'm impressed!
July 22nd, 2007 10:11 AM
July 22nd, 2007 11:34 AM
QKShooter, that was my understanding also.
I've had some range time with the .40 caliber Baby Eagle, and it's a fine firearm for range work. Bit heavy for my tastes (made the Glock feel real light), and a bit heavy for combat I would assume too, but still well-built.
And unlike the Desert Eagle, it doesn't spit brass straight back into your face!
July 22nd, 2007 12:37 PM
BAC - Yep, that's likely it. If a person did not know the barrel had Polygonal Rifling then it would sure look like somebody made a boo-boo and forgot a step.
I believe that the Polygonal Rifling is actually a part of the barrel forging process (formed over a mandrel) as the barrel is forged to shape so I'm best guessing that it would be impossible for the maker to neglect to put the Polygonal Rifling into a finished barrel.
Though I HAVE heard of normal/traditional barrel Rifling and chambering being Whoops! forgotten.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
July 22nd, 2007 02:39 PM
Yes, it does look like the one on the right. I have had several knowledgeable friends look at it and they all agree that no matter how you look at it there is no rifling.
Originally Posted by QKShooter
Guess I could just load a primed case and make a muzzle loader out of it.
July 22nd, 2007 03:10 PM
Well folks, maybe I have to reconsider. I performed the ultimate test on the barrel. I had my little 98# wife put oil on her little finger and stick it in the barrel and then turn the barrel and tell me what she felt. She says "I can feel little bumps and valley thingee's"
So, there you go. Guess I'll just go to the range and give it a try.
About the weight comment: It weighs 39.8 w/empty mag. 3.93" barrel.
I have a whole bunch of CZ's (the IWI is a clone) but wanted a 45 but not the 97.
July 22nd, 2007 03:11 PM
Here You Go - Your Handgun
The IMI Jericho 941 - Now Known As The Baby Eagle
The Jericho 941 is a double action, high capacity pistol developed by Israeli Military Industries, and introduced in 1990. It was known for a time as the Uzi Eagle when sold by Mossberg. The current incarnation is the Baby Eagle, manufactured by IMI and imported to the United States by Magnum Research, Inc.
Its design is based on the CZ-75 pistol produced by Česká zbrojovka (CZ) of the Czech Republic. The pistol is assembled and finished in Israel from parts from Italy's Tanfoglio. Compared to the CZ pistol the 941 is rather heavier, with a shallower slide that can be harder to pull for some shooters. Unlike the Czezh CZ-75 or Tanfoglio TZ-75, the Baby Eagle features a slide-mounted safety/decocker. There is also a polymer framed version available.
The introduction of the Jericho 941 also introduced a new caliber to the market, the .41 Action Express (or .41 AE), which was developed in 1986. The .41 AE was a unique rebated rim cartridge designed to use .410 inch (10.25 mm) bullets and duplicate a reduced power police loading of the .41 Magnum. The Jericho originally shipped with two barrels, one for 9 mm Luger and the other for .41 AE. The magazine was designed to feed either round, and since the .41 AE was designed with a rebated rim the same dimensions as that of the 9 mm, the extractor and ejector worked equally well for either cartridge.
Soon after its commercial introduction, the .40 S&W was introduced to the market. Ballistically, the .40 S&W was nearly identical to moderate .41 AE loads (the reloading manuals that list the .41 AE generally say to use .40 S&W data), although commercial loadings of .41 AE were somewhat more powerful than the .40 S&W. With the stronger backing of major American firearms and ammunition manufacturers, the .40 S&W quickly pushed the .41 AE out of the market. The Jericho 941 was only on the market for 1 year before the dual 9 mm/.41 AE chambering was dropped, and the pistol was sold as either 9 mm or .40 S&W.
A later compact version, the Jericho 945, was chambered in .45 ACP or 9 mm.
IMI eventually dropped the "Jericho" name in the American marketplace, and renamed the line of pistols "Baby Eagle", to capitalize on the cosmetic resemblance to IMI's more popular Desert Eagle pistol line.
Like its namesake, Baby Eagle pistols also feature polygonal rifling.
Due to increased manufacturing cost, IMI switched to conventional land and groove rifling in 2005 for Baby Eagle pistols. For 2007 IMI has switched back to polygonal rifling. The Desert Eagle retains polygonal rifling.
The Jericho 941 is issued in current service throughout the Israeli Security Forces.
The current production Baby Eagle lineup includes full size, semi-compact and compact models with both steel and polymer frames.
Polygonal rifling is a type of rifling wherein the traditional lands and grooves are replaced by "hills and valleys" in a rounded polygonal pattern, usually a hexagon.
While polygonal rifling has been around since the earliest days of rifled barrels, it had faded out of use by the time of the early cordite cartridges.
The last common rifle to use polygonal rifling was the Lee-Metford rifle, named after the Metford rifling, a 7 sided polygonal type rifling. The switch to cordite from black powder proved too much for the shallow rifling in the relatively soft barrels of the time, and the Lee-Metford became the Lee-Enfield when the Metford rifling was dropped.
Heckler & Koch was the first manufacturer to begin using polygonal rifling in modern arms.
Companies that utilize this method today include Heckler & Koch, Glock, Magnum Research and Kahr arms.
Polygonal rifling is usually only found in pistol barrels, and is less common in rifles, However some extremely high end rifles like the PSG-1 or the MSG90 use polygonal bores.
The term "polygonal rifling" is fairly general, and different manufacturers employ varying polygonal rifling profiles.
A number of advantages are claimed by the supporters of polygonal rifling.
Higher velocities due to reduced friction of the bullet in the barrel, as the polygonal rifling has less surface area than the lands and grooves of a traditionally rifled barrel.
Less bullet deformation, resulting in reduced drag on the bullet which helps to increase range and accuracy
Increased barrel life and reduced buildup of copper or lead within the barrel
However, precision target pistols such as those used in bullseye and IHMSA almost universally use traditional rifling, as do target rifles.
The debate among target shooters is almost always one of cut vs. button rifled barrels, as traditional rifling is dominant.
The areas where polygonal rifled barrels are used competitively is in pistol action shooting, such as IDPA and IPSC competitions.
Part of the difference may be that most polygonal rifling is produced by hammer forging the barrel around a mandrel containing a reverse impression of the rifling.
Hammer forging machines are tremendously expensive, far out of the reach of custom gunsmiths (unless they buy pre-rifled blanks), and so are generally only used for production barrels by large companies.
The main advantage of a hammer forging process is that it can rifle, chamber, and contour a bored barrel blank in one step.
First applied to gun barrel rifling in Germany in 1939, hammer forging has remained popular in Europe, but was only later used by gunmakers in the United States.
The hammer forging process produces large amounts of stress in the barrel that must be relieved by careful heat treatment, a process that is less necessary in a traditionally cut or button rifled barrel.
Due to the potential for residual stress causing accuracy problems, precision shooters tend to avoid hammer forged barrels, and thus limits them in the type of available rifling.
The manufacturer Glock advises against using lead bullets (meaning bullets not covered by a copper jacket) in their polygonally rifled barrels, which has led to a widespread belief that polygonal rifling is not compatible with lead bullets.
Noted firearms expert Gale McMillan has also commented that lead bullets and polygonal rifling are not a good mix.
However, since neither H&K nor Kahr recommend against lead bullets in their polygonal rifled barrels, it is probable that there is an additional factor involved in Glock's warning.
One explanation is that Glock barrels have a fairly sharp transition between the chamber and the rifling, and this area is prone to lead buildup if lead bullets are used.
This buildup may result in failures to fully return to battery, allowing the gun to fire with the case not fully supported by the chamber, leading to a potentially dangerous case failure.
The other explanation is that Glock's barrels may be more prone than normal to leading, which is the buildup of lead in the bore that happens in nearly all firearms firing high velocity lead bullets.
This lead buildup must be cleaned out regularly, or the barrel can become constricted and result in higher than normal pressures.
July 22nd, 2007 03:16 PM
Well, shining a light into the bore should reveal the shape as not being smooth and circular. That failing, fire off a few rounds at 15 yards and you should be able to tell within those few rounds whether or not the rifling is present.
According to this, you've got yourself a handgun with a polygonal barrel. Which is consistent with the considerable bragging Magnum Research does about the superiority of the polygonal barrel over traditional rifling.
July 22nd, 2007 03:39 PM
Glock and kahr both use the same rifling and its noticable. Hold the barrel up to light and you should definetly see the grooves.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146
German philosopher (1844 - 1900)
July 23rd, 2007 06:18 PM
My Uzi Eagle .40 has the polygonal rifling. It's the all-steel, full-size model. I've found it to be a very reliable, accurate shooter. It points very well and has a good trigger for a DA/SA pistol. I prefer a 1911 in .45 for CCW, but I certainly don't lack confidence in this weapon. It has a nice home in my desk drawer.
"We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters
July 24th, 2007 12:12 AM
With the action closed, it will look like the one on the right. Shoot it
Originally Posted by QKShooter
and swab the barrel open the action and look in the muzzle, you will see something resembling rifling if it is there.
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