People Pointing Guns

This is a discussion on People Pointing Guns within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Bumper Quite frankly I would ignore it. Take the little bugger aside and tell him, "Hey, look I know you are an ...

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Thread: People Pointing Guns

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumper
    Quite frankly I would ignore it. Take the little bugger aside and tell him, "Hey, look I know you are an innocent child but you need to educate yourself on what liberal gun grabbers are shoving up all of our backsides. If I were to do what they have told me to do, I would have to expel you, so put that in your pocket until you get home and don't bring it back to school. If you do, I will make you suffer through a week in Mr Euclidean's math class."

    I bet he would never bring it back to school. Seriously, as a teacher or principle I would not enforce it. As a taxpayer in that school district I would make the biggest stink they had seen in a long time. Zero tolerance? BS. I would pack up and go to work for a charter school....
    That can typically happen Bumper.

    But then the little sod goes and rats you out to your administrator that you let it go. You are then promptly dismissed.

    Then a week later the same thing happens to someone else and they know good and well what happened to you.

    Either that or a parent finds out that a student had such an item on campus and the policy was not enforced. They file a law suit against you, against the school, against the district, etc. You are promptly dismissed, and then ordered to pay 1.5 million in court.

    Now where I work it's not like that. As a matter of fact I just had a very similar incident with a wooden toothpick shaped like a knife with similar results. I also am aware it could mean the end of my employment for doing so but I did it anyway because it'd be stupid to do anything more.

    Odds are pretty good that in that incident someone could have just used a little judgment before it got that out of hand. But I wasn't there so I don't know that.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Talking

    Bro, if you've ever seen me shoot; you'd know the safest place to be is in front of me!

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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    That can typically happen Bumper.

    But then the little sod goes and rats you out to your administrator that you let it go. You are then promptly dismissed.
    Not likely he would rat you out for giving him a break, but regardless, I'd still do it. And if they fired me I would say good ridance to them. I'd find a line of work that I didn't have to work with such ignorant people. No wonder our schools are so screwed up. I guarantee you that if a school did that to one of my kids I would tear the place up. Period. That kinda crap has no place in an institution that I PAY FOR with my taxes....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q-ball
    I'm more concerned about Phil's eyebrow!

    Yep! Phil's got that Spock look down cold
    "I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York

    "They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper

  6. #20
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    Bumper,

    I know that these guys probably do it for humor, after all, we are among our own kind.

    Yeah, it's kind of like "hey, lookie I'm wearing big boy underwear" but usually we know the guy. We know when the guy's got ego issues and when someone like Betty is swinging for the cheap seats to make us laugh, like she successfully does.

    If that's what a guy's got to do to shore up his reproductive issues, fine, it's no big deal. We know the guy. Snicker, and then carry on. Sooner or later everything filters through their prose.

    For example, in your experience, how many extra 'Rs' have you seen in the word 'patridge.' Does the hero pointing the gun at the camera evey know what they are?

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array Prospector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q-ball
    I'm more concerned about Phil's eyebrow!
    Oh let it go....that's that Spock look....always liked Spock!
    "Endeavor To Persevere"
    Chief Dan George

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumper
    Not likely he would rat you out for giving him a break, but regardless, I'd still do it. And if they fired me I would say good ridance to them. I'd find a line of work that I didn't have to work with such ignorant people. No wonder our schools are so screwed up. I guarantee you that if a school did that to one of my kids I would tear the place up. Period. That kinda crap has no place in an institution that I PAY FOR with my taxes....
    That's the thing Bumper.

    It's the people who pay taxes who make those policies.

  9. #23
    Member Array Deke45's Avatar
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    Actually I was thinkin' about making me one of those "lookin' down the barrel" avatars myself. I don't think anything is wrong with them.

    Kimber Ultra CDP Elite STS II

    A gun is a tool...the real weapon is between your ears!

  10. #24
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    Let's inject some fun - as we are talking barrels! This is looking down my long barrel SRH 44 ...... with ''additions'' LOL ........


    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    That's the thing Bumper.

    It's the people who pay taxes who make those policies.
    No, it's policies made by LIBERALS and they happen to pay taxes. But liberal rules don't deserve to be followed. They serve absolutely NO purpose. Enforcing silly rules like that legitimizes them. Ignore them then take your lumps and fight back if you get caught.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deke45
    Actually I was thinkin' about making me one of those "lookin' down the barrel" avatars myself. I don't think anything is wrong with them.
    I may have to do it myself if it is considered so politically incorrect...
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Bumper I'm not disagreeing with you at all. But you explain to a crowd of angry parents why you didn't follow some rule to the letter.

    "Because it's a hunk of bull sh#t" is not a good explanation to these people.

    Now I personally do not have to worry about situations like this. I have an adminstrator who's got my back, and I live in a community where stupidity like that is not tolerated.

    But others aren't so lucky.

  13. #27
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    I think the argument to an angry parent would be, "What do you honestly believe this child could do with a 1" plastic replica of a gun? It is a piece of plastic that is not dangerous in any way. Would you like me to expel your child because they brought something so benign to school or would you prefer that I spend my time doing what I am here to do, teach?"

    I'm glad you don't have to worry about situations like this, Euc, I really am. My frustration is with our liberal school systems. They do everything they can to avoid the one thing they are supposed to be doing, teaching children. I know I will draw some heat on this, but I don't believe teachers (as a group) need raises. I think they need to rethink their priorities. When I grew up teachers were teachers because they wanted to teach children. The whole tenure thing is a farce. Teachers should be held accountable for how successful their students are academically, period. If they are not successful, they should go find another line of work. Maybe, just maybe, they would then have the motivation to stop worrying about stupid rules that have nothing to do with learning and concentrate on teaching kids. And, for problem kids, they should bring back the good ole "butt whoopin" which I was so familiar with in school.
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Well on the subject of teacher pay Bumper I will just say this: Yeah it pays what it pays, they tell you up front, get over it. But on the other side of the coin, if I don't advocate for myself, who will?

    I'd like to continue my education at some point in the near future. At current tuition fees I question whether or not I really can, even if I cut my expenses down considerably. That extra 1k annually that's a trivial cost of living increase to most white collar people is a lot of money to me.

    Not to mention I have a host of students who do not or cannot furnish their own supplies. I want students to have pencils? I buy them. I want office tape? I buy it.

    Putting more money in my pocket is just putting more into the school system. I'd like to acquire a scanner and some other stuff we could use in there too.

    Oh and I pay for my own insurance out of pocket too save for a $500 kicker. Of course others are in the same situation, like when I worked at Lowe's.

    Of course you could just supply me with these things in the first place and avoid the whole salary debate. But the Texas legislature doesn't see it that way.

    I quite agree that a lot of this mess is because they're turning the schools into vehicles of social services and not educational instituitions. They've also made a sacred calf of standardized testing. You can thank No Child Left Behind for helping to cripple the system.

    Your idea about tying salary to performance is questionable as well.

    Bumper at the end of the ninth grade year in an ideal world, a student should be able to find the roots of quadratic equation. There's some other things too but this is a big one.

    I work with students who cannot multiply Bumper. You ask them what 5 times 7 is, and they don't know. That's third grade material. They come in from other states, from other school systems, and from home schooling situations and most of them are ambivalent.

    Bumper I have a kid in there now who tested at a 5th grade level at the start of the year and he's completed a full course of 8th grade material. But did he fail the standardized test? Yes, by 5 questions. By last year's scoring standards he would have passed.

    But a failure is a failure. No excuses. I'll take my pay cut now please.

    Inevitably Bumper an idea like yours is either tied to standardized testing results or passing rates.

    As for standardized testing results, I have perused books upon books by different experts on assessment and they all say the same thing: a multiple choice test, no matter how well designed, does not give you an accurate picture of a student's ability. It never has and it never will. Yet we base our school's ratings on such things.

    A standardized test is about like the dipstick in your car's oil only far less accurate.

    Now we base it on passing rates. Okay, the health class the swimming coach teaches has a 95% passing rate. My math class has a 65% passing rate, 2% below the campus average. Clearly the coach's rigorous course of watching Bill Cosby movies and reading chapters in a book and then copying the answers out of the back is providing a better education. I should just give up now, eh? I'm clearly academically inferior.

    Another thing about these so called performance bonuses or whatever: they've never passed any, at least in this state, that were funded. What happens is you get teachers qualifying for it, and maybe 1 in 8 would actually get it. Wow that's a great system.

    That's the problem with a lot of so called raises. Yay they passed a raise. Oh wait. They didn't fund it. Well no raise for us then. It's like someone giving you a piece of paper that says "We'd like to give you $500 but we're not going to".

    It just kills me. People want good public schools, but no one wants to pay for it. It's like paying for a Makarov and expecting a Nighthawk. Bottom line, the more you pay, the more competitive and more like the private sector this profession will be. It's that simple.

    I do agree corporal punishment is a useful tool we are lacking. For Pete's sake all they do is give the kid a love tap with witnesses. It saves us time and effort, and it's ultimately not a punishment at all, just the perception of one.

    I don't pretend to have all the answers, but one of them is simply this: get the damn politicians out of our schools. Get out all the useless regulations, and get the federal government out of it if possible. Cut out all the middle men. Fire all the administrators who got their jobs because they're a board member's wife or son in law. And we don't need a coordinator for everything for God's sake. One third of all educational professionals in Texas are adminstrators, and they typically get paid double what most instructors in the state make.

    I actually want to go study secondary school administration formally at some point. Maybe then I'll have some better ideas. I just hope they don't pull the plug on the whole thing by then.

  15. #29
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    Guys, I would add one aspect to cool the debate. Is the child's involvement with firearms (or a guy with an ego problem here) a case of 'monkey see, monkey do'? If so, then some adult needs to step in and teach.

    Granted, a plastic gun is a toy, but an adult needs to convey to the kid when there is an appropriate use of any item. I don't believe in "zero tolerance," I do believe in doing your job as a parent.

    My Dad taught me to sharpen at age eight. That lesson showed me that knives were tools, not necessarily weapons, and like all tools they needed care.

    Parallel example, when I was about 15 years old, there was a lot of work needed for my parent's home. We had lived there for +10 years, and the place needed paint, the grove that my Dad planted needed pruning, and the lawn always needed a mowing. And it was hot.

    My Dad and I would take a mid-afternoon break, and as a treat, he would give me a bottle of beer. And in doing so as an adult parent, he showed me that there was a time and a place for everything--even an alcohol beverage. I never drank and drove--not even in the cycle club.

    And as a parent, someone should have stepped in earlier and taught the child that school is no place for guns, period. That's a parent's job.

    Now, mugging for the camera with a gun, no biggee. You have a gun, you know how to use a camera, it's been done a hundred times. Am I supposed to feel you're a trained mercenary? Am I supposed to be impressed you can do two things at one time?

    Or am I allowed to think what I usually do; that being, you wanted to show me something you have that's really big, and the pistol was the only thing you had...

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Good point Tourist.

    Lord I wish they'd let us teach gun safety. We cover sex for God's sake. Guns are far less interesting and/or dangerous.

    Just a basic 4 rules curriculum, and maybe a little bit on the various major kinds of firearms, popular calibers, and important guns throughout history. It could be an elective like driver's ed.

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