Full Mag Empty Chamber

This is a discussion on Full Mag Empty Chamber within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by HotGuns Personally, I think that most people that dont feel comfortable carrying a round in the chamber need more training. Until that ...

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Thread: Full Mag Empty Chamber

  1. #16
    Member Array Deke45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns
    Personally, I think that most people that dont feel comfortable carrying a round in the chamber need more training.

    Until that happens, they might be better off not carrying one on the chamber.If they dont instinctivley point the gun away from anything they dont want to shoot, if they cant keep their finger off of the trigger, if they are sloppy with their gun handling skills, the public might be better off with them having a gun with an unloaded chamber.
    Until they clean up their gun handling skills as mentioned, they have no business carrying a pistol in public...period!

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  3. #17
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    Not To Harp On This Again

    But I still don't understand how some people think that a fully loaded D.A. GLOCK with one in the chamber is SOMEHOW different or more UNSAFE than an ordinary loaded revolver.
    I never understood that.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter
    But I still don't understand how some people think that a fully loaded D.A. GLOCK with one in the chamber is SOMEHOW different or more UNSAFE than an ordinary loaded revolver.
    I never understood that.
    Me either, QK, but they are definitely out there....
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    I dont get it either and thats why i posted ya never hear people call for a safety on a wheelie or if you have heard it i havent

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    I'll chirp in here.

    The only designs that I don't like, that I personally wouldn't want to carry, are the ones with an exposed hammer which is cocked and held in place by a manual safety.

    The 1911 and several of the CZ designs come to mind.

    Okay now let me explain why. I know in my mind that I'm probably just freaking out over nothing, but here's why it bothers me:

    If you were to actually be moving around, shifting positions, and squirming about a lot, isn't there at least a tiny chance you could accidentally slip the safety off?

    It happens to my Ruger all the time just in casual range carry. I'll put it in its Fobus holster for a few minutes, unloaded of course, to free up my hands so I can pick up brass or whatever, and when I draw it, it drags on the tail of my shirt or what have you and the safety slips off.

    However it's no big deal as the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction, my finger is off the trigger, and there is nothing in the chamber. The other thing is I know that even if the safety is off, the hammer is not under any kind of tension to spring forward and strike. It is "at ease".

    Now what are the odds of something like that happening with a real holster and a decent gun? Probably incredibly poor. Even then the 1911 lovers will be quick to point out the grip safety, but not all such pistols will have a grip safety.

    Rationally, I know that a good holster and practicing the presentation would demonstrate it's not a concern to get worked up about. Yet at the same time, I also know there's a world of pistols out there that do not require a cocked hammer to rest on a loaded chamber.

    And you know what? That just makes me feel better. Isn't that a stupid reason? But it does. It just makes me feel better knowing I don't have to worry about that incredibly slim one in a billion possibility.

    I figure if some poor sod can get blown up pouring gas into a gas can in the back of their struck because static electricity sparked up, I'd be the fool who could cause an AD to happen while I was carrying such a pistol.

    Now would I try such a pistol to shoot steel plates or even protect my home? Yeah I could see that. But I don't want to stuff such a thing in an IWB holster and go crawling about all day wondering if the safety is still engaged.

    There's a world of options out there and if something makes you nervous, even if it's not for a good reason, then just avoid it. You don't owe anyone an explanation. Your personal carry firearm should be something you have confidence in.

    Keep cranking away and maybe one day you'll change your mind, but until then there's no reason to get yourself all worked up.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Cool Message is also INSIDE your quote

    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    I'll chirp in here.

    The only designs that I don't like, that I personally wouldn't want to carry, are the ones with an exposed hammer which is cocked and held in place by a manual safety.

    The 1911 and several of the CZ designs come to mind.

    Okay now let me explain why. I know in my mind that I'm probably just freaking out over nothing, but here's why it bothers me:

    If you were to actually be moving around, shifting positions, and squirming about a lot, isn't there at least a tiny chance you could accidentally slip the safety off?

    It happens to my Ruger all the time just in casual range carry. I'll put it in its Fobus holster for a few minutes, unloaded of course, to free up my hands so I can pick up brass or whatever, and when I draw it, it drags on the tail of my shirt or what have you and the safety slips off.

    However it's no big deal as the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction, my finger is off the trigger, and there is nothing in the chamber. The other thing is I know that even if the safety is off, the hammer is not under any kind of tension to spring forward and strike. It is "at ease".

    Now what are the odds of something like that happening with a real holster and a decent gun? Probably incredibly poor. Even then the 1911 lovers will be quick to point out the grip safety, but not all such pistols will have a grip safety. Maybe not, Euc, but there is always a HALFCOCK MECHANISM which would add a THIRD layer of safety to a 1911 and a second to every other gun.

    And you know what? That just makes me feel better. Isn't that a stupid reason? But it does. It just makes me feel better knowing I don't have to worry about that incredibly slim one in a billion possibility. Euc, the the odds are exactly the same as a BOLT OF LIGHTNING striking so close to you so as to simultaneously DETONATE all the rounds in your cylinder.
    I don't know what the odds of being struck by lightning are in your neck of the woods, but here in Florida they are ELEVEN TIMES GREATER than anywhere else in the nation.

    Having said all of that...what YOU said trumps everything else in MY post here, and I'll restate it:

    And you know what? That just makes me feel better. Isn't that a stupid reason? But it does. It just makes me feel better knowing I don't have to worry about that incredibly slim one in a billion possibility.

    It may be a stupid reason to me, but I'm not you and if you think it's valid that is the FINAL WORD!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  8. #22
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    Exclamation My Little "Chime In"

    Some 1911s have a thumb safety that will wipe off a bit too easily.
    That is a mechanical problem that can easily taken care of by putting a small detent in the safety face. Problem solved.
    Your pistol "thumb safety" (on ANY pistol) should never move by itself to the "off safe" position.
    If that does happen then it's time to shop around for a new holster design or have your pistol problem repaired by a gunsmith....or both.
    If your Ruger has a safety that constantly slips "Off Safe" then please send it back to Ruger & have it factory repaired for free.
    Please don't judge all pistol designs against one defective firearm that you happen to own.
    I think that some people will never feel totally comfortable with some weapon designs or firearm modes of carry and that is OK.
    That is why guns come in Many Different Flavors.
    Don't knock the firearm for everybody...because it's not the exact correct one for you. Find One That YOU Like...there are PLENTY to choose from!
    And if it's your life on the line...and not mine then carry it however you want to.
    The argument that some VERY POPULAR pistol designs are unsafe with a round in the chamber is bogus because if that were true then people would be constantly N.D.ing all over the place & that is just not happening. That is the reality of the situation.
    If a pistol design was really UNSAFE then in a very short while the lawyers would own that specific gun company & that particular pistol design would simply cease to exist through never~ending lawsuits.
    All the "logic" in the world is not going to make the 1911 pattern pistol unsafe when carried with a round in the chamber.
    Some people (of course) will not care for the 1911 pistol because it should be carried that way to be most effective.
    It (and the GLOCK) are probably THE most carried pistol styles these days & they have both stood the test of time as being very safely carried in "The Most Deadly" condition.
    You can feel free to NOT LIKE the 1911 pistols for whatever reason you want.
    You can feel free to NOT LIKE them because YOU think they are unsafe for yourself.
    This is America :unitedsta...knock yourself out thinking whatever you want about any pistol or rifle. Don't buy one...or do buy one.
    You can feel free to buy one and carry it totally empty and leave your bullets in the trunk of the car...if that is what you feel most safe doing.
    But, for the people that are familiar with the 1911 pattern pistol design and trust their personal high quality firearms it's truly safe and "Condition 1 Carry" is not a safety issue or a concern.
    Last edited by QKShooter; May 22nd, 2005 at 01:34 PM.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    It goes all ways guys...

    I've met one person and currently know another person who's frightened to death of revolvers, convinced they are radically dangerous and mechanically unsafe. They won't own one for anything.

    I figure my little paranoia about cocked and locked is mild by comparison.

  10. #24
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    The numbers are probably against you. More people like the 1911 design than don't, I'm thinking. But it doesn't really matter....
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  11. #25
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    Essentially it boils down as "to each, his own" what ever makes you comfortable carrying...by all means do it....be it a revolver, a dao semi, or a sa semi.....just so it becomes another appendage of your body....that comfortable.
    "Endeavor To Persevere"
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  12. #26
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bud White
    ...Now the big question i have here for the Forum...Should people like this even be carrying???
    I might question their wisdom in carrying that way, but not their right to carry.
    - Tom
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  13. #27
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    Interesting

    Former owner of a really NICE and filled to the brim gun shop.
    Could carry ANY firearm his heart desired.
    What was his daily carry firearm...You Ask....
    N. A. A. Mini .22 LR revolver in pants pocket.
    People should carry whatever they want to carry.
    And any firearm sure beats the heck out of a Bic ballpoint pen in a pinch.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    QK:

    Funny you should say that... local FFL, a guy who can buy the finest handguns at bargain basement prices, uses a .357 caliber Rossi revolver.

    The first time I saw him, when we sat down to to business, he pulled it out of his shorts pocket and sat it down on the desk.

    "Sorry about that. I don't know you yet, and I always take that extra precaution with new customers."

  15. #29
    Member Array Waldo0506's Avatar
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    No, people like this should not be carrying.

    When you are attacked, or you are in a situation where you need to pull your pistol you will be under great stress and the bad guy ALWAYS has the upper hand, otherwise you would pull on him before he was a threat and YOU would be the bad guy.

    Chances are under the stress of being shot or attacked at close range you wouldnt have the skills and you certainly wont have the speed to draw and then chamber.

    If you carry like that your only hope is that the perp's gun jams.

  16. #30
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    late arrival here....
    ...It all boils down to training and an individuals' comfort with his own skill level and handgun. IMHO I think that a manual safety is an 'emotional safety blanket.'

    Before I received training for my CCW, I'd (foolishly ) have a full magazine right beside my home defense weapon. Now that I've received training and have spent more consistent range time with said weapon, I keep the handgun in Condition 1, cocked & locked. (For the record, I don't share my apartment with children or any adults.)

    I'll admit that being new to CCW (just a few short months!) that not having a manual safety (Glock, Springfield XD, for few examples) concerned me at first, yet quite frankly my confidence and skill level have grown to a level that my next 'acquisition' will be a G26.

    A manual safety can NEVER take the place of competence, training, education, and dry-firing / live range firing exercises. It's all about comfort level and training.
    It's not about the caliber you carry, it's about how you USE it.

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