What the heck are these?!?

What the heck are these?!?

This is a discussion on What the heck are these?!? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; As some of you may know, I recently inherited some handguns from my Uncle. This evening as I got to the bottom of the box, ...

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Thread: What the heck are these?!?

  1. #1
    Member Array CorpsVet's Avatar
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    What the heck are these?!?

    As some of you may know, I recently inherited some handguns from my Uncle. This evening as I got to the bottom of the box, where I thought there were just some cleaning rags, I found 2 revolvers and a semi, and I don't know what the heck they are.

    First the semi. I looks to be eastern block. It is heavy black metal. It has brown plastic grips and is single action. It was in a brown leather holster with a full covering flap. On the outside of the holster is a pocket for a mag and a cleaning rod. There was on mag in the pistol and one in the pocket. The cleaning rod is round metal, has a slot on the end and a ring for pulling it through the bore at the top. I can mind no manufactures name. The chamber, which can be seen in the ejection port appears to be marked 7.62, but there are a lot of scratches and I am not sure of that. I can find no other indications of caliber.
    Any guesses?

    Next I have a small, 5 shot revolver, chrome but with a lot of rust spots. It is a top break, double action, and is marked "Smith & Wesson, Springfield Mass. There are some dates, which may refer to patent info. I find no caliber markings anywhere. It has black plastic, perhaps hard rubber, grips with the S&W logo at the tops. One on the grips is missing a "chunk" at the bottom rear. Just to get an idea of caliber, I put a .380 round in the cylinder. The projectile portion would go in, but the case was slightly to large.

    The other revolver is also a top break, chrome with black grips. It is a 6 shot and a little larger than the first one described. The chrome is in much better shape and shows little rust. It is marked "Harrington & Richardson Arms Company Worcester Mass. USA Pat's Oct 4th 1887. It appears to be the same caliber and the back of the cylinder and ejection "star" have 35 stamped on them. Perhaps it is a .35 caliber?

    Anyway, all 3 appear to be fully functional, but I'm not sure I would fire any of them even if I did know what ammo to get (and could find some)
    If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he will sit in a boat and drink beer.


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    CZ52?
    Last edited by Scott; August 22nd, 2007 at 10:11 PM. Reason: The site you linked the picture from blocked it - Scott
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    pics might help to id the guns.
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    Just kidding.
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  5. #5
    Member Array CorpsVet's Avatar
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    I would post pics if I could, but I can't..............sorry.
    If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he will sit in a boat and drink beer.

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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Most likely the Auto is marked 7.65 ( the same as the .32 acp ) . The revolvers sound to me like .38 S&W which had a " heeled " bullet so the case was actually the same size as the outside of the projectile instead of the width of the brass thicker .

    The smith could quite possibly be worth a bit , the h&r less so , the auto it is impossible to speculate more than i have , other than it is likely european ( due to the holster styling and suspected caliber ) . It could be anything from a nice old walther to some of the 300 or so brands of " junkers " that was made around europe pre ww2.

    If you can post some pics i am sure we can further id them for you, but that is as far as i am willing to speculate at this point .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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    Member Array CorpsVet's Avatar
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    The CZ52 guess was right on!! I googled CZ52, and there it is, pic looks the same as my gun.
    I don't think the revolvers are .38's as .380 brass could not be inserted. I think they are smaller than .38, maybe .32. Guess I'll take them to a gun shop and see if they can be measured so I'll have a better idea of what I have, and perhaps their value(s).
    If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he will sit in a boat and drink beer.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Corps my guess on .38 S&W still stands .
    I put a .380 round in the cylinder. The projectile portion would go in, but the case was slightly to large.
    the .380 is 9mm which is roughly .356 for the projectile . The .38 S&W had a heeled bullet , like a .22lr the projectile is as wide as the case or even a bit more and the base expands a bit when fired to provide the gas seal . what is marked as .38 is nomonaly .357. and glad you found out the auto was a cz .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  9. #9
    Member Array CorpsVet's Avatar
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    Redneck, I understand now that you compared it to a .22lr. You may be right.
    If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he will sit in a boat and drink beer.

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    Next I have a small, 5 shot revolver, chrome but with a lot of rust spots. It is a top break, double action, and is marked "Smith & Wesson, Springfield Mass. There are some dates, which may refer to patent info. I find no caliber markings anywhere. It has black plastic, perhaps hard rubber, grips with the S&W logo at the tops. One on the grips is missing a "chunk" at the bottom rear. Just to get an idea of caliber, I put a .380 round in the cylinder. The projectile portion would go in, but the case was slightly to large.
    Here are the possibilities:

    .38 Double Action, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th Model.

    .38 Double Action Perfected Model.

    .38 Safety Hammerless, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th Model.

    All were chambered in .38 S&W caliber.

    Without pics or a more detailed description, including markings, this is as far as I can narrow it down.


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    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

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    Terry

  11. #11
    Member Array CorpsVet's Avatar
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    Well, it has an external hammer, so probably not #3's. It is a DA. Do you know if the "perfected Model" came in 5 shot?
    If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he will sit in a boat and drink beer.

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    The semi sounds like a tokarev TT 33 or a knockoff off that pistol...I had one in 9mm...no pics?

  13. #13
    New Member Array Brian Williams's Avatar
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    The 38 S&W does not have a heeled bullet, it can use 38 spec bullets but it does have a larger case diameter than 38 spec, not sure about 380s tho.
    Brian

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    Quote Originally Posted by CorpsVet View Post
    Well, it has an external hammer, so probably not #3's. It is a DA. Do you know if the "perfected Model" came in 5 shot?
    OK, the external hammer eliminates the Safety Hammerless models.

    The .38 Double Action Perfected Model is a 5 shot, in 3.25, 4, 5 and 6 inch barrel lengths. It is the only top-break S&W to have both a top strap release latch and a thumb release latch (on the left side of the frame) and the only top-break with a sideplate on the right side of the frame, held in place with 4 screws.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Brian you are mistaken sir . See for referance

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heeled_bullet

    http://www.vintagepistols.com/357_vs_38.html

    http://www.sashgunclub.com/info/caliber_select.htm

    You are correct tho that the inside case diamiter of the .38 S&W is .357 and a standard .357 may be loaded into the case at the cost of accuracy due to poor engagement of the rifleing.
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

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